3 ms·

The sad thing is that at least some part of the growth of vehicles on the road is because few people can afford to own (and park) multiple cars or other vehicle

The sad thing is that at least some part of the growth of vehicles on the road is because few people can afford to own (and park) multiple cars or other vehicles larger than a bike. I have to move 3 kids and 2 adults regularly over longer distances, so I am pretty much constrained to a van (say a VW T7). But unfortunately, I cannot afford to accompany this expensive car with a smaller, preferrably electric, vehicle. So whenever I have to switch off the bike and move something or someone by car, I switch to the van directly. Car sharing is pretty much uneconomical at that point and a motorcycle or even a cargo bike is problematic due to space constraints.

globular-toast 4y ago
A VW Golf from the 70s could fit two adults and three children. Or you could rent the van when you really need it. The trouble is when a society accepts non-sustainable solutions it's very difficult to go back to anything remotely sustainable as any technological progress is always expected to deliver "more". It also leads to people thinking their ridiculous lifestyles are baseline necessity when, in fact, they could be happy with a whole lot less.
- goethes_kind 4y ago
  Exactly. Without judging the OP (I am also looking at buying a van (although I would not drive it regularly in the city)) it is a matter of luxury rather than necessity.
  - koheripbal 4y ago
    With three kids and car seats/boosters, there is no option. You need a minivan or SUV.
    - globular-toast 4y ago
      So you're saying all those five-seater cars that are being made are for seating five adults but if you have children you need a van?
      - KevinGlass 4y ago
        Yes. If you have 3 kids and 2 are in the booster seat category, which some agencies recommend until they are 4'9" (145 cm), which some kids may not reach until 12 or older. You cannot fit 3 large booster seats in a Golf, or at least not comfortably. I personally doubt the necessity of booster seats for older children at all but that's another topic all together.
      - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
        Yes, unfortunately. Car seats and booster seats are hard items and they don't have joints to move bits out of the way. People are squishy and have moving parts. The adults won't be comfortable if they are thicker, but they can squish in - often, quite literally. The solution to this would realistically be to have built-in booster seats or a different style of seat belt that would better fit children and eliminate the need for booster seats for the older children.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  Sure, but so could a compact hatchback from the 80s. The issue is this: Car seat and booster seat laws in the US have changed (I don't know what they are where I live, as I don't have kids. Sister in the US does, though). If you spaced your children 3 years apart, you could easily have 3 car or booster seats in the car, which means your back seat needs to be even larger. The VW golf from the 70s probably couldn't fit 3 booster/car seats, and might struggle with the two youngest using them while the oldest just gets smashed in the middle. Hopefully they aren't large for their age.
- pfortuny 4y ago
  Not if two of the children are under 5? (need a safety seat). And that is one of the horrid consequences of hyper-risk-averse government.
- choeger 4y ago
  A VW Golf from the 2020s could not cover that use case legally or practically. First of all, kids need safety seats nowadays and these seats are to be mounted via ISOFIX. And guess how many such seats you can mount in a Golf? Right. Two. When the kids grow older, they don't need such seats but need to be belted properly, potentially including another form of a cheaper safety seat or a particular kind of belt, depending on the jurisdiction. You might consider this some kind of circus or greed, but when it's about safety of my children, I don't go back 50 years just because we all need to be more sustainable while some people (cough, US, cough) seem to think it's a great idea to live in uninsulated homes running their AC on fossile fuel. Besides that, small children need strollers and more children generally means more luggage. You could get away with a Passat or a Golf Variant, but you'd face a challenge for longer trips. A family car exists to solve a problem and not to cause trouble. And regarding renting a van: This would easily cost more than ownership (weekend trips are horribly expensive) and be less comfortable (fetching and returning the car).
8note 4y ago
The distance is a choice, mind you. One cargo bike for each adult would otherwise handle the job fine
- choeger 4y ago
  Distance ain't a choice. Family doesn't live in a single village or city. And no, they're not conveniently close to a train station nor does traveling by train with kids and luggage compete with a car economically and practically. I really wonder how city-focused one must be to not understand the necessity of regular travels to visit friends and family.

globular-toast 4y ago

A VW Golf from the 70s could fit two adults and three children. Or you could rent the van when you really need it. The trouble is when a society accepts non-sustainable solutions it's very difficult to go back to anything remotely sustainable as any technological progress is always expected to deliver "more". It also leads to people thinking their ridiculous lifestyles are baseline necessity when, in fact, they could be happy with a whole lot less.

goethes_kind 4y ago
Exactly. Without judging the OP (I am also looking at buying a van (although I would not drive it regularly in the city)) it is a matter of luxury rather than necessity.
- koheripbal 4y ago
  With three kids and car seats/boosters, there is no option. You need a minivan or SUV.
  - globular-toast 4y ago
    So you're saying all those five-seater cars that are being made are for seating five adults but if you have children you need a van?
    - KevinGlass 4y ago
      Yes. If you have 3 kids and 2 are in the booster seat category, which some agencies recommend until they are 4'9" (145 cm), which some kids may not reach until 12 or older. You cannot fit 3 large booster seats in a Golf, or at least not comfortably. I personally doubt the necessity of booster seats for older children at all but that's another topic all together.
    - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
      Yes, unfortunately. Car seats and booster seats are hard items and they don't have joints to move bits out of the way. People are squishy and have moving parts. The adults won't be comfortable if they are thicker, but they can squish in - often, quite literally. The solution to this would realistically be to have built-in booster seats or a different style of seat belt that would better fit children and eliminate the need for booster seats for the older children.
Broken_Hippo 4y ago
Sure, but so could a compact hatchback from the 80s. The issue is this: Car seat and booster seat laws in the US have changed (I don't know what they are where I live, as I don't have kids. Sister in the US does, though). If you spaced your children 3 years apart, you could easily have 3 car or booster seats in the car, which means your back seat needs to be even larger. The VW golf from the 70s probably couldn't fit 3 booster/car seats, and might struggle with the two youngest using them while the oldest just gets smashed in the middle. Hopefully they aren't large for their age.
pfortuny 4y ago
Not if two of the children are under 5? (need a safety seat). And that is one of the horrid consequences of hyper-risk-averse government.
choeger 4y ago
A VW Golf from the 2020s could not cover that use case legally or practically. First of all, kids need safety seats nowadays and these seats are to be mounted via ISOFIX. And guess how many such seats you can mount in a Golf? Right. Two. When the kids grow older, they don't need such seats but need to be belted properly, potentially including another form of a cheaper safety seat or a particular kind of belt, depending on the jurisdiction. You might consider this some kind of circus or greed, but when it's about safety of my children, I don't go back 50 years just because we all need to be more sustainable while some people (cough, US, cough) seem to think it's a great idea to live in uninsulated homes running their AC on fossile fuel. Besides that, small children need strollers and more children generally means more luggage. You could get away with a Passat or a Golf Variant, but you'd face a challenge for longer trips. A family car exists to solve a problem and not to cause trouble. And regarding renting a van: This would easily cost more than ownership (weekend trips are horribly expensive) and be less comfortable (fetching and returning the car).

8note 4y ago

The distance is a choice, mind you. One cargo bike for each adult would otherwise handle the job fine

choeger 4y ago
Distance ain't a choice. Family doesn't live in a single village or city. And no, they're not conveniently close to a train station nor does traveling by train with kids and luggage compete with a car economically and practically. I really wonder how city-focused one must be to not understand the necessity of regular travels to visit friends and family.