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> Did they make a mistake? For California, I don't know. For western European: Oh my god YES! By all mean signal which way you're going to turn, but in inters

> Did they make a mistake? For California, I don't know. For western European: Oh my god YES! By all mean signal which way you're going to turn, but in intersection, especially those with multiple lanes, you never make a left turn. Drivers will not expect you in the middle of the intersection.

schoen 4y ago
I'm genuinely grateful to learn that, and I'll try to avoid making vehicular left turns in intersections in Europe in the future!
- robryk 4y ago
  The GP is plainly wrong. ~Everyone in Switzerland does normal vehicular left turns, and the bicycle exam for schoolchildren includes making vehicular left turns correctly (i.e. signaling, waiting for cars that are in process of overtaking you, moving to the middle of the road, possibly stopping, turning when the way's free of vehicles that have right of way). E: Source: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/stadtpolizei_zuerich/praevention/schulinstruktion/velopruefung.html#welche_regeln_geltenbeimabbiegenundeinspuren https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/stadtpolizei_zueric...
krisoft 4y ago
> don't know. For western European: Oh my god YES! You are over generalising. I don't know where you are but where I am in western europe cyclist absolutely cross intersections like a vehicle. The trick is to take control of the lane. If you are sticking to the side cars won't see you. If you take up space in front of them they will see you and include you in their calculations. And before you or someone else jumps here to spread some fud: No i am not advocating jumping in front of cars with zero warning. Or whatever silly idea you have based on what I just wrote. I see this done all the time, and I do it fairly regularly. You have to be seen. You have to be predictable. You have to know where you are heading.
lukaslalinsky 4y ago
This is really not correct. I'd say in the most of Europe, you signal left, you take the entire lane and make your turn on the intersection. In many places there are even dedicated zones in front of left lanes (taking the entire width), so that it's obvious cyclists have the right to do so. And the same thing on roundabouts, if you want to safely ride a roundabout you absolutely have to take the entire lane and not allow cars to overtake you. Otherwise cars exiting the roundabout will run over you.
WesolyKubeczek 4y ago
For Eastern European: bikers can turn left at intersections, they must signal with their arm, position themselves to the left of the lane just as cars do, and drivers have to expect them. It’s being taught in driving schools, for heaven’s sake. But just as you don’t signal and start your left turn in your car at the last moment, so you don’t with a bike. Unfortunately, we have bikers who go to a left turn from the rightmost position, don’t signal or signal when it’s useless. The rule for drivers is to expect and anticipate stupid people and not kill them.
NanoCoaster 4y ago
I don't know what parts of western Europe you're talking about, but in Germany, cyclists absolutely make left turns all the time. Also, drivers are taught about this in driving school, so they will (or should at least) expect cyclists to be there. For the record, I personally prefer crossing twice as well. But I'll disagree with "western Europe".

schoen 4y ago

I'm genuinely grateful to learn that, and I'll try to avoid making vehicular left turns in intersections in Europe in the future!

robryk 4y ago
The GP is plainly wrong. ~Everyone in Switzerland does normal vehicular left turns, and the bicycle exam for schoolchildren includes making vehicular left turns correctly (i.e. signaling, waiting for cars that are in process of overtaking you, moving to the middle of the road, possibly stopping, turning when the way's free of vehicles that have right of way). E: Source: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/stadtpolizei_zuerich/praevention/schulinstruktion/velopruefung.html#welche_regeln_geltenbeimabbiegenundeinspuren https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/stadtpolizei_zueric...

krisoft 4y ago

> don't know. For western European: Oh my god YES! You are over generalising. I don't know where you are but where I am in western europe cyclist absolutely cross intersections like a vehicle. The trick is to take control of the lane. If you are sticking to the side cars won't see you. If you take up space in front of them they will see you and include you in their calculations. And before you or someone else jumps here to spread some fud: No i am not advocating jumping in front of cars with zero warning. Or whatever silly idea you have based on what I just wrote. I see this done all the time, and I do it fairly regularly. You have to be seen. You have to be predictable. You have to know where you are heading.

lukaslalinsky 4y ago

This is really not correct. I'd say in the most of Europe, you signal left, you take the entire lane and make your turn on the intersection. In many places there are even dedicated zones in front of left lanes (taking the entire width), so that it's obvious cyclists have the right to do so. And the same thing on roundabouts, if you want to safely ride a roundabout you absolutely have to take the entire lane and not allow cars to overtake you. Otherwise cars exiting the roundabout will run over you.

WesolyKubeczek 4y ago

For Eastern European: bikers can turn left at intersections, they must signal with their arm, position themselves to the left of the lane just as cars do, and drivers have to expect them. It’s being taught in driving schools, for heaven’s sake. But just as you don’t signal and start your left turn in your car at the last moment, so you don’t with a bike. Unfortunately, we have bikers who go to a left turn from the rightmost position, don’t signal or signal when it’s useless. The rule for drivers is to expect and anticipate stupid people and not kill them.

NanoCoaster 4y ago

I don't know what parts of western Europe you're talking about, but in Germany, cyclists absolutely make left turns all the time. Also, drivers are taught about this in driving school, so they will (or should at least) expect cyclists to be there. For the record, I personally prefer crossing twice as well. But I'll disagree with "western Europe".