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Visual scripting is a dead end. Much preferable would be to have a IDE to display code visually in metaphors. Like i create a input set, and then can watch the

Visual scripting is a dead end. Much preferable would be to have a IDE to display code visually in metaphors. Like i create a input set, and then can watch the input traverse the state-pachinko machine until it comes to rest again. Make it easier to see cause and effect of a single moment, visually displayed, without loosing the underlying code and class structure.

throw_m239339 4y ago
> Visual scripting is a dead end. Tell that to the Blender team and their "everything nodes" project... When done right it allows artists and non programmers to write programs. https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/geometry_nodes/introduction.html https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/geometry_... Another popular project is animation nodes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB8R_xPpaSc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB8R_xPpaSc These are alternatives to Python in Blender. So no, it's not a dead end, it depends on how it is implemented. Node based programming is essentially functional programming. But for it to be useful one needs both low level nodes along side higher level nodes that are immediately useful for artists.
- edflsafoiewq 4y ago
  Nodes let non-programmers access some of the power of being able to program. It's inferior to real programming in every other way though. Writing code to generate node graphs (eg. for Blender materials) is particularly hellacious.
  - throw_m239339 4y ago
    > It's inferior to real programming in every other way though. Writing code to generate node graphs (eg. for Blender materials) is particularly hellacious. Programming is programming, there is no such thing as "real programming". Visual programming is an alternative to textual programming, we're discussing whether it's good or not, but let's not imply that visual programming is not programming, it is programming. > Writing code to generate node graphs (eg. for Blender materials) is particularly hellacious No, it isn't hellacious. Node based programming languages eliminates a few things non programmers don't want to deal with: syntax errors and type errors.
    - edflsafoiewq 4y ago
      I said "writing code to generate node graphs". If you have some example of nice code for this I'd like to see it. Everything I've seen is opaque (unclear what the node graph will look like), basically write-once, and has trouble getting the placement of the nodes correct enough even to not overlap, let alone look nice. (Also it doesn't eliminate type errors, sockets have a type after all.)
      - throw_m239339 4y ago
        > (Also it doesn't eliminate type errors, sockets have a type after all.) If you used any significant Node based programming system, then you know you can't randomly plug sockets from different types unless that socket explicitly supports type conversion.
        edflsafoiewq 4y ago
        Isn't that what you call a type error?
        throw_m239339 4y ago
        > Isn't that what you call a type error? Obviously no, since you can't connect incompatible outputs with inputs at first place.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    On the contrary, it is the foundation of programming, how digital circuit design applications work. If anything they make quite clear when people write spaghetti code, instead of proper modules.
- barrysteve 4y ago
  It's a dead end for serious branching logic, which most game logic will collide with on the cpu. Nodes are great for parallel work on the gpu, shaders, animations, ect which is why you see it primarily in artistic tools. This is treated like it is more controversial than it is, people who've tried to do real branching logic on blueprints/visual code have seen it die.
pjmlp 4y ago
Apparently AAA studios haven't got the memo.

throw_m239339 4y ago

> Visual scripting is a dead end. Tell that to the Blender team and their "everything nodes" project... When done right it allows artists and non programmers to write programs. https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/geometry_nodes/introduction.html https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/geometry_... Another popular project is animation nodes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB8R_xPpaSc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB8R_xPpaSc These are alternatives to Python in Blender. So no, it's not a dead end, it depends on how it is implemented. Node based programming is essentially functional programming. But for it to be useful one needs both low level nodes along side higher level nodes that are immediately useful for artists.

edflsafoiewq 4y ago
Nodes let non-programmers access some of the power of being able to program. It's inferior to real programming in every other way though. Writing code to generate node graphs (eg. for Blender materials) is particularly hellacious.
- throw_m239339 4y ago
  > It's inferior to real programming in every other way though. Writing code to generate node graphs (eg. for Blender materials) is particularly hellacious. Programming is programming, there is no such thing as "real programming". Visual programming is an alternative to textual programming, we're discussing whether it's good or not, but let's not imply that visual programming is not programming, it is programming. > Writing code to generate node graphs (eg. for Blender materials) is particularly hellacious No, it isn't hellacious. Node based programming languages eliminates a few things non programmers don't want to deal with: syntax errors and type errors.
  - edflsafoiewq 4y ago
    I said "writing code to generate node graphs". If you have some example of nice code for this I'd like to see it. Everything I've seen is opaque (unclear what the node graph will look like), basically write-once, and has trouble getting the placement of the nodes correct enough even to not overlap, let alone look nice. (Also it doesn't eliminate type errors, sockets have a type after all.)
    - throw_m239339 4y ago
      > (Also it doesn't eliminate type errors, sockets have a type after all.) If you used any significant Node based programming system, then you know you can't randomly plug sockets from different types unless that socket explicitly supports type conversion.
      - edflsafoiewq 4y ago
        Isn't that what you call a type error?
        throw_m239339 4y ago
        > Isn't that what you call a type error? Obviously no, since you can't connect incompatible outputs with inputs at first place.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  On the contrary, it is the foundation of programming, how digital circuit design applications work. If anything they make quite clear when people write spaghetti code, instead of proper modules.
barrysteve 4y ago
It's a dead end for serious branching logic, which most game logic will collide with on the cpu. Nodes are great for parallel work on the gpu, shaders, animations, ect which is why you see it primarily in artistic tools. This is treated like it is more controversial than it is, people who've tried to do real branching logic on blueprints/visual code have seen it die.

pjmlp 4y ago

Apparently AAA studios haven't got the memo.