4 ms·

Telling confused children how to buy hormones with Bitcoin, inject themselves without medical supervision, and hide it all from parents isn't praiseworthy.

emptyparadise 4y ago
Hopefully one day the kids will be able to get the care they need without having to bypass the medical system or hide things from their family. Until then, they get to be biopunk.
- xupybd 4y ago
  Would you consider a body builder on gear to be biopunk? I'm not sure that self medication is a safe concept to be promoting.
  - emptyparadise 4y ago
    I think ensuring access to proper medical care is the correct way to remove the need to self-medicate.
    - xupybd 4y ago
      So by that statement self medication is not a good thing that we should be promoting?
- deepdriver 4y ago
  This "care" is unnecessary and harmful for most children. Puberty is the cure for most children with body dysphoria; up to 90% of kids who identify as transgender desist from this identity post-puberty. However, effects from "gender-affirming care" like a deepened voice, mastectomy, orchiectomy, hysterectomy, and sterilization are irreversible. The long-term effects of puberty blockers especially are unknown, particularly as they affect adolescent brain development. That's without mentioning the usual risks of blood clots, osteoporosis, mood disorders, and cardiovascular events that can result from hormone treatment even in clinical settings. In the UK, the Tavistock clinic for youth gender medicine was recently forced to shut over concerns for patient safety, and findings that staff were rushing children into procedures they later regretted: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/04/gender-identity-clinic-whistleblower-wins-damages https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/04/gender-ident... The NHS-commissioned Cass Report details the many risks and gaps of evidence underlying youth transition: https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/0... Former patients are now coming forward to tell how they were harmed: https://www.persuasion.community/p/keira-bell-my-story https://www.persuasion.community/p/keira-bell-my-story In the US, the Society for Evidence-Based Gender Medicine is attempting to spread this knowledge among practitioners: https://segm.org/ https://segm.org/ This issue is highly ideological and politicized on both sides. Suggesting medical transition for any minor is not currently supported by the evidence. National health systems like Sweden's have banned it outside clinical trials. Instructing minors to attempt it themselves without medical or psychological evaluation or monitoring is reckless in the extreme. Doing it for sexual gratification, as some are in Keffals' case, is monstrous.
  - nathanaldensr 4y ago
    - deepdriver 4y ago
      - dzhiurgis 4y ago
      - DanBC 4y ago
        > even repeating verbatim lines from The Guardian articles about the scandal at Tavistock is considered transphobic. The Guardian is so transphobic that their own journalists penned an open letter to complain about it. Almost anything you hear from the Guardian on trans gender issues is going to be heavily biased against trans people. It's a certainty that you've not understood the Tavistock stuff. > In contrast, children in their teens are now undergoing sterilizing surgeries under the label of gender-affirming care. Not in the UK they're not, and I'd be surprised if it was happening in the US.
  - cholantesh 4y ago
    >This issue is highly ideological and politicized on both sides. Suggesting medical transition for any minor is not currently supported by the evidence. Neither is conversion therapy, but SEGM happily associates itself with advocates for it , along with evangelical organizations. Indeed, such advocates are found among 'expert witnesses' in the Tavistock case. Maybe Vice should report on these associations. Maybe people who are just deeply concerned about child welfare should pay attention to them, too.
    - deepdriver 4y ago
      As usual, trans activists have co-opted language of the gay rights movement (conversion therapy) to describe an altogether different situation: https://segm.org/danger_of_conflation https://segm.org/danger_of_conflation If you care about kids, don’t ignore the growing body of evidence that suggests youth transition is overwhelmingly harmful. Don’t ignore stories like Chloe’s: https://twitter.com/ChoooCole/status/1560495012999151616 https://twitter.com/ChoooCole/status/1560495012999151616 The harm will be obvious to all once the lawsuits get rolling: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/britains-gender-youth-clinic-faces-mass-legal-action/ https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/britains-gender-youth-...

emptyparadise 4y ago

Hopefully one day the kids will be able to get the care they need without having to bypass the medical system or hide things from their family. Until then, they get to be biopunk.

xupybd 4y ago
Would you consider a body builder on gear to be biopunk? I'm not sure that self medication is a safe concept to be promoting.
- emptyparadise 4y ago
  I think ensuring access to proper medical care is the correct way to remove the need to self-medicate.
  - xupybd 4y ago
    So by that statement self medication is not a good thing that we should be promoting?
deepdriver 4y ago
This "care" is unnecessary and harmful for most children. Puberty is the cure for most children with body dysphoria; up to 90% of kids who identify as transgender desist from this identity post-puberty. However, effects from "gender-affirming care" like a deepened voice, mastectomy, orchiectomy, hysterectomy, and sterilization are irreversible. The long-term effects of puberty blockers especially are unknown, particularly as they affect adolescent brain development. That's without mentioning the usual risks of blood clots, osteoporosis, mood disorders, and cardiovascular events that can result from hormone treatment even in clinical settings. In the UK, the Tavistock clinic for youth gender medicine was recently forced to shut over concerns for patient safety, and findings that staff were rushing children into procedures they later regretted: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/04/gender-identity-clinic-whistleblower-wins-damages https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/04/gender-ident... The NHS-commissioned Cass Report details the many risks and gaps of evidence underlying youth transition: https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/0... Former patients are now coming forward to tell how they were harmed: https://www.persuasion.community/p/keira-bell-my-story https://www.persuasion.community/p/keira-bell-my-story In the US, the Society for Evidence-Based Gender Medicine is attempting to spread this knowledge among practitioners: https://segm.org/ https://segm.org/ This issue is highly ideological and politicized on both sides. Suggesting medical transition for any minor is not currently supported by the evidence. National health systems like Sweden's have banned it outside clinical trials. Instructing minors to attempt it themselves without medical or psychological evaluation or monitoring is reckless in the extreme. Doing it for sexual gratification, as some are in Keffals' case, is monstrous.
- nathanaldensr 4y ago
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    - dzhiurgis 4y ago
    - DanBC 4y ago
      > even repeating verbatim lines from The Guardian articles about the scandal at Tavistock is considered transphobic. The Guardian is so transphobic that their own journalists penned an open letter to complain about it. Almost anything you hear from the Guardian on trans gender issues is going to be heavily biased against trans people. It's a certainty that you've not understood the Tavistock stuff. > In contrast, children in their teens are now undergoing sterilizing surgeries under the label of gender-affirming care. Not in the UK they're not, and I'd be surprised if it was happening in the US.
- cholantesh 4y ago
  >This issue is highly ideological and politicized on both sides. Suggesting medical transition for any minor is not currently supported by the evidence. Neither is conversion therapy, but SEGM happily associates itself with advocates for it , along with evangelical organizations. Indeed, such advocates are found among 'expert witnesses' in the Tavistock case. Maybe Vice should report on these associations. Maybe people who are just deeply concerned about child welfare should pay attention to them, too.
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    As usual, trans activists have co-opted language of the gay rights movement (conversion therapy) to describe an altogether different situation: https://segm.org/danger_of_conflation https://segm.org/danger_of_conflation If you care about kids, don’t ignore the growing body of evidence that suggests youth transition is overwhelmingly harmful. Don’t ignore stories like Chloe’s: https://twitter.com/ChoooCole/status/1560495012999151616 https://twitter.com/ChoooCole/status/1560495012999151616 The harm will be obvious to all once the lawsuits get rolling: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/britains-gender-youth-clinic-faces-mass-legal-action/ https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/britains-gender-youth-...