6 ms·

How am I supposed to make a left turn at an intersection? Other than that, yes, being on the far right on the road is where I'd feel safest.

phicoh 4y ago
On a busy road the only safe option is to make two crossings: stay on the right and cross and then cross again. It is very annoying. Depending on the situation, you can indeed move to a lane that turns left. But it requires cooperation from drivers. So in places where drivers are either hostile to bikes or likely to overlook bikes, it is not a safe way to turn.
411111111111111 4y ago
Worst case you'll have to wait one traffic light rotation. One of the directions is generally green when you get there, then you'll have to wait for the switch and you can continue. But that heavily depends on how the traffic is routed. Not Just Bikes is very opinionated, but gives some pretty nice examples of well executed crossings in the Netherlands https://youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes https://youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes
mrweasel 4y ago
You don't. Sorry, bikes DO NOT make left turns in intersections. You go straight across, then cross from there. I've biked to school and work for 25 years, and in intersections, I never make a left turn. It takes 2 minutes extra at the most, small price to pay for not being under a truck. Smaller roads, sure, if there's no traffic, you just look over your left shoulder and make the turn if it's all clear.
- schoen 4y ago
  I took a bike safety class that was supposedly taught by professionals and supposedly based on local vehicle legislation (in California) and they taught us to make vehicular left turns, by positioning ourselves in the rightmost traffic lane which is allowed to turn left, and indicating our intentions to make a left turn with our hands. I've subsequently done this several hundred times in various kinds of traffic. Did they make a mistake? Is this not consistent with what motorists are being taught to expect? Are motorists commonly not being taught what to expect, and getting confused about this?
  - rocqua 4y ago
    I don't think California drivers see enough cyclists do the same thing to have any kind of consistent expectation of what cyclists will do, or what they should do.
  - mrweasel 4y ago
    > Did they make a mistake? For California, I don't know. For western European: Oh my god YES! By all mean signal which way you're going to turn, but in intersection, especially those with multiple lanes, you never make a left turn. Drivers will not expect you in the middle of the intersection.
    - schoen 4y ago
      I'm genuinely grateful to learn that, and I'll try to avoid making vehicular left turns in intersections in Europe in the future!
      - robryk 4y ago
        The GP is plainly wrong. ~Everyone in Switzerland does normal vehicular left turns, and the bicycle exam for schoolchildren includes making vehicular left turns correctly (i.e. signaling, waiting for cars that are in process of overtaking you, moving to the middle of the road, possibly stopping, turning when the way's free of vehicles that have right of way). E: Source: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/stadtpolizei_zuerich/praevention/schulinstruktion/velopruefung.html#welche_regeln_geltenbeimabbiegenundeinspuren https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/stadtpolizei_zueric...
    - krisoft 4y ago
      > don't know. For western European: Oh my god YES! You are over generalising. I don't know where you are but where I am in western europe cyclist absolutely cross intersections like a vehicle. The trick is to take control of the lane. If you are sticking to the side cars won't see you. If you take up space in front of them they will see you and include you in their calculations. And before you or someone else jumps here to spread some fud: No i am not advocating jumping in front of cars with zero warning. Or whatever silly idea you have based on what I just wrote. I see this done all the time, and I do it fairly regularly. You have to be seen. You have to be predictable. You have to know where you are heading.
mrpopo 4y ago
> being on the far right on the road is where I'd feel safest. No. When there are no bike lanes, the safest place to be is at least one bicycle width away from the far right of the road. Some drivers will overtake you in tight situations no matter what. If you stand in the far right, you have no leeway and will get stuck between death and hitting the curbside. Take a safety buffer to retreat to when the occasional mad driver comes for your life.
nomercy400 4y ago
With bike lanes, you go straight until you reach the bike line of the crossing road, and then you wait for the (bike) lights on that road to turn green. You really need bike lanes.
rocqua 4y ago
The way this works in the Netherlands is that there is a traffic light just for cyclists. Usually you just line up on the right of the road, and wait for the cyclists light (Usually all directions) turns green.
wodenokoto 4y ago
You are not supposed to take a left turn at an intersection on a bicycle! That’s insane. Do you expect pedestrians to do the same? You go straight and stop at the end of the intersection. Wait for lights to change and cross again. I would honk if someone took a left turn in front of my car on their bicycle in Copenhagen.
- avdlinde 4y ago
  I hope this is a joke and not serious. Bicycles are supposed to be on the road, pedestrians are not.
  - mrweasel 4y ago
    > Bicycles are supposed to be on the road The point is, that they aren't suppose to be in the middle of road.
    - eptcyka 4y ago
      Why?
      - mrweasel 4y ago
        Because that's where the cars go? You see, there is a system. Starting from the right: pedestrians, bikes and lastly cars. We never deviate from that system, that way everyone always know where everything is. Sometimes there's a bike lane, but that still goes between the pedestrians and the cars. Also, if everything else fail, and this is what kids in Denmark is taught. If you're ever in doubt if the drivers have seen you, assume they haven't and stay away from the cars. You're on a bike, it's a great means of transportation and it's really safe (at least here), but if you're hit by a car, it's going to hurt you more than the car, so stay away from them. I think it's weird that people in countries that have the most cyclist are also the people who least of all believe that bikes have some weird right of way or than bikes should just be in the middle of heavy traffic.
        4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

phicoh 4y ago

On a busy road the only safe option is to make two crossings: stay on the right and cross and then cross again. It is very annoying. Depending on the situation, you can indeed move to a lane that turns left. But it requires cooperation from drivers. So in places where drivers are either hostile to bikes or likely to overlook bikes, it is not a safe way to turn.

411111111111111 4y ago

Worst case you'll have to wait one traffic light rotation. One of the directions is generally green when you get there, then you'll have to wait for the switch and you can continue. But that heavily depends on how the traffic is routed. Not Just Bikes is very opinionated, but gives some pretty nice examples of well executed crossings in the Netherlands https://youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes https://youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes

mrweasel 4y ago

You don't. Sorry, bikes DO NOT make left turns in intersections. You go straight across, then cross from there. I've biked to school and work for 25 years, and in intersections, I never make a left turn. It takes 2 minutes extra at the most, small price to pay for not being under a truck. Smaller roads, sure, if there's no traffic, you just look over your left shoulder and make the turn if it's all clear.

schoen 4y ago
I took a bike safety class that was supposedly taught by professionals and supposedly based on local vehicle legislation (in California) and they taught us to make vehicular left turns, by positioning ourselves in the rightmost traffic lane which is allowed to turn left, and indicating our intentions to make a left turn with our hands. I've subsequently done this several hundred times in various kinds of traffic. Did they make a mistake? Is this not consistent with what motorists are being taught to expect? Are motorists commonly not being taught what to expect, and getting confused about this?
- rocqua 4y ago
  I don't think California drivers see enough cyclists do the same thing to have any kind of consistent expectation of what cyclists will do, or what they should do.
- mrweasel 4y ago
  > Did they make a mistake? For California, I don't know. For western European: Oh my god YES! By all mean signal which way you're going to turn, but in intersection, especially those with multiple lanes, you never make a left turn. Drivers will not expect you in the middle of the intersection.
  - schoen 4y ago
    I'm genuinely grateful to learn that, and I'll try to avoid making vehicular left turns in intersections in Europe in the future!
    - robryk 4y ago
      The GP is plainly wrong. ~Everyone in Switzerland does normal vehicular left turns, and the bicycle exam for schoolchildren includes making vehicular left turns correctly (i.e. signaling, waiting for cars that are in process of overtaking you, moving to the middle of the road, possibly stopping, turning when the way's free of vehicles that have right of way). E: Source: https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/stadtpolizei_zuerich/praevention/schulinstruktion/velopruefung.html#welche_regeln_geltenbeimabbiegenundeinspuren https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/stadtpolizei_zueric...
  - krisoft 4y ago
    > don't know. For western European: Oh my god YES! You are over generalising. I don't know where you are but where I am in western europe cyclist absolutely cross intersections like a vehicle. The trick is to take control of the lane. If you are sticking to the side cars won't see you. If you take up space in front of them they will see you and include you in their calculations. And before you or someone else jumps here to spread some fud: No i am not advocating jumping in front of cars with zero warning. Or whatever silly idea you have based on what I just wrote. I see this done all the time, and I do it fairly regularly. You have to be seen. You have to be predictable. You have to know where you are heading.

mrpopo 4y ago

> being on the far right on the road is where I'd feel safest. No. When there are no bike lanes, the safest place to be is at least one bicycle width away from the far right of the road. Some drivers will overtake you in tight situations no matter what. If you stand in the far right, you have no leeway and will get stuck between death and hitting the curbside. Take a safety buffer to retreat to when the occasional mad driver comes for your life.

nomercy400 4y ago

With bike lanes, you go straight until you reach the bike line of the crossing road, and then you wait for the (bike) lights on that road to turn green. You really need bike lanes.

rocqua 4y ago

The way this works in the Netherlands is that there is a traffic light just for cyclists. Usually you just line up on the right of the road, and wait for the cyclists light (Usually all directions) turns green.

wodenokoto 4y ago

You are not supposed to take a left turn at an intersection on a bicycle! That’s insane. Do you expect pedestrians to do the same? You go straight and stop at the end of the intersection. Wait for lights to change and cross again. I would honk if someone took a left turn in front of my car on their bicycle in Copenhagen.

avdlinde 4y ago
I hope this is a joke and not serious. Bicycles are supposed to be on the road, pedestrians are not.
- mrweasel 4y ago
  > Bicycles are supposed to be on the road The point is, that they aren't suppose to be in the middle of road.
  - eptcyka 4y ago
    Why?
    - mrweasel 4y ago
      Because that's where the cars go? You see, there is a system. Starting from the right: pedestrians, bikes and lastly cars. We never deviate from that system, that way everyone always know where everything is. Sometimes there's a bike lane, but that still goes between the pedestrians and the cars. Also, if everything else fail, and this is what kids in Denmark is taught. If you're ever in doubt if the drivers have seen you, assume they haven't and stay away from the cars. You're on a bike, it's a great means of transportation and it's really safe (at least here), but if you're hit by a car, it's going to hurt you more than the car, so stay away from them. I think it's weird that people in countries that have the most cyclist are also the people who least of all believe that bikes have some weird right of way or than bikes should just be in the middle of heavy traffic.
      - 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]