5 ms·

I wonder if the "cross a red light anytime I want to on a bike" is the reason so many are now doing the same in their cars. it could be (1) got used to it on

by gernb 4y ago

I wonder if the "cross a red light anytime I want to on a bike" is the reason so many are now doing the same in their cars. it could be (1) got used to it on a bike so repeating in car (2) saw cyclists get away with it so decided might as well do the same (3) unrelated reason note: I'm seeing egregious traffic violations by cars every time I drive now which was not true say 10yrs ago. Don't know what changed as a cyclist I'd love to see Netherlands level of bicycle support in more cities

empira 4y ago
Sure, and I also drive on the sidewalk with my car because I'm so used to it when I walk.
acebarry 4y ago
It's not because of bicycles.
sasaf5 4y ago
It's actually because of pedestrians jaywalking all the time. Horrible example for car ownership abiding citizens. As if it wasn't enough, they also make traffic a lot more dangerous by selfishly exposing themselves unvehicled.
- nobody9999 4y ago
  https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking https://medium.com/@Marcus_Charles22/the-history-of-jaywalking-and-what-it-says-about-you-1500e4a60a39 https://medium.com/@Marcus_Charles22/the-history-of-jaywalki... https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/a-brief-history-of-jaywalking-in-nyc https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/a-brief-history-of-... https://www.salon.com/2015/08/20/the_secret_history_of_jaywalking_the_disturbing_reason_it_was_outlawed_and_why_we_should_lift_the_ban/ https://www.salon.com/2015/08/20/the_secret_history_of_jaywa...
- mnd999 4y ago
  For me, from the UK, jaywalking is a strange law, we’ve never had it and I don’t really know why it exists elsewhere. It makes streets more pedestrian friendly and encourages drivers to look out for them.
  - ChrisRR 4y ago
    Yeah from the UK it seems so weird. I look up and down the road; if it's clear, I cross.
  - shaoonb 4y ago
    Moved from Auckland (with fairly weak, unenforced jaywalking laws) to London and I've found that jaywalking is essentially required here due to how slow most pedestrian lights tend to be. Perhaps in places with stronger jaywalking laws, lights are timed in such a way that you don't have to wait too long to cross legally?
    - _dain_ 4y ago
      There is no such thing as illegally crossing a road in the UK. Green light, red light, no light; it doesn't matter, they're just advisory. You have the perfect right to cross whenever and wherever you feel like it. If it causes an accident I believe you can be liable, but ultimately it's just common sense and your own self-preservation instinct that governs your behaviour, not the law. I believe the only exception is on a motorway.
eloisius 4y ago
I'm guessing (3). For one, I'm not sure that your observation is because you've gotten older and have become a more cautious driver, or if there is a quantifiable uptick in traffic violations. I also subjectively observed a behavior change right around the time COVID was declared a global pandemic and shelter in place orders were issued. At the time, I thought to myself that everyone was driving like they were in their own apocalypse movie. A relaxation of police enforcement would likely result in driving behavior change, but it would be hard for us to quantify. Could be the result of increased immigration from countries with different driving attitudes. Could be changes to drivers ed. Could be a lot of things. Most likely it's our perception that has changed as we've gotten older. I doubt it's cyclist who get in their cars and forget they can't run red lights though. I run reds on my bike because it's safer than waiting at an intersection (this is a demonstrable fact, before anyone replies how much they hate me and my kind or how unfair or yada yada). What I don't do is carry that behavior over when I'm driving a car. I'm in a completely different mode.
- ChrisRR 4y ago
  Or if it's just confirmation bias. Once you notice something happening you start seeing it all the time.
k4rli 4y ago
So many are doing? I assume you're American then? In my opinion if there's one traffic law to abide, it's that. Not signaling, speeding, etc are relatively harmless compared to running red lights. It's very rare to see anyone do that in here (Northern Europe) and I think the fines for that are also the largest among related fines.
cocoto 4y ago
In France, crossing red lights by bike is allowed when there is a special sign. It’s extremely convenient but dangerous when you are used to it and rarely driving a car.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
  Comes from Idaho https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop
_dain_ 4y ago
Sometimes you just have to jump a red light on a bike. The sensor doesn't detect you, so it'll stay red forever until a car comes up behind you. I've even had this happen on dedicated bicycle traffic lights ... >note: I'm seeing egregious traffic violations by cars every time I drive now which was not true say 10yrs ago. Don't know what changed More cars on the road?
- InCityDreams 4y ago
  Perhaps the sensor is back a bit behind you? I know several places where the sensors are 30-60 metres away: it allows cars to pass thru in chunky groups.

by gernb 4y ago

empira 4y ago

Sure, and I also drive on the sidewalk with my car because I'm so used to it when I walk.

acebarry 4y ago

It's not because of bicycles.

sasaf5 4y ago

It's actually because of pedestrians jaywalking all the time. Horrible example for car ownership abiding citizens. As if it wasn't enough, they also make traffic a lot more dangerous by selfishly exposing themselves unvehicled.

nobody9999 4y ago
https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking https://medium.com/@Marcus_Charles22/the-history-of-jaywalking-and-what-it-says-about-you-1500e4a60a39 https://medium.com/@Marcus_Charles22/the-history-of-jaywalki... https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/a-brief-history-of-jaywalking-in-nyc https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/a-brief-history-of-... https://www.salon.com/2015/08/20/the_secret_history_of_jaywalking_the_disturbing_reason_it_was_outlawed_and_why_we_should_lift_the_ban/ https://www.salon.com/2015/08/20/the_secret_history_of_jaywa...
mnd999 4y ago
For me, from the UK, jaywalking is a strange law, we’ve never had it and I don’t really know why it exists elsewhere. It makes streets more pedestrian friendly and encourages drivers to look out for them.
- ChrisRR 4y ago
  Yeah from the UK it seems so weird. I look up and down the road; if it's clear, I cross.
- shaoonb 4y ago
  Moved from Auckland (with fairly weak, unenforced jaywalking laws) to London and I've found that jaywalking is essentially required here due to how slow most pedestrian lights tend to be. Perhaps in places with stronger jaywalking laws, lights are timed in such a way that you don't have to wait too long to cross legally?
  - _dain_ 4y ago
    There is no such thing as illegally crossing a road in the UK. Green light, red light, no light; it doesn't matter, they're just advisory. You have the perfect right to cross whenever and wherever you feel like it. If it causes an accident I believe you can be liable, but ultimately it's just common sense and your own self-preservation instinct that governs your behaviour, not the law. I believe the only exception is on a motorway.

eloisius 4y ago

I'm guessing (3). For one, I'm not sure that your observation is because you've gotten older and have become a more cautious driver, or if there is a quantifiable uptick in traffic violations. I also subjectively observed a behavior change right around the time COVID was declared a global pandemic and shelter in place orders were issued. At the time, I thought to myself that everyone was driving like they were in their own apocalypse movie. A relaxation of police enforcement would likely result in driving behavior change, but it would be hard for us to quantify. Could be the result of increased immigration from countries with different driving attitudes. Could be changes to drivers ed. Could be a lot of things. Most likely it's our perception that has changed as we've gotten older. I doubt it's cyclist who get in their cars and forget they can't run red lights though. I run reds on my bike because it's safer than waiting at an intersection (this is a demonstrable fact, before anyone replies how much they hate me and my kind or how unfair or yada yada). What I don't do is carry that behavior over when I'm driving a car. I'm in a completely different mode.

ChrisRR 4y ago
Or if it's just confirmation bias. Once you notice something happening you start seeing it all the time.

k4rli 4y ago

So many are doing? I assume you're American then? In my opinion if there's one traffic law to abide, it's that. Not signaling, speeding, etc are relatively harmless compared to running red lights. It's very rare to see anyone do that in here (Northern Europe) and I think the fines for that are also the largest among related fines.

cocoto 4y ago

In France, crossing red lights by bike is allowed when there is a special sign. It’s extremely convenient but dangerous when you are used to it and rarely driving a car.

rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
Comes from Idaho https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop

_dain_ 4y ago

Sometimes you just have to jump a red light on a bike. The sensor doesn't detect you, so it'll stay red forever until a car comes up behind you. I've even had this happen on dedicated bicycle traffic lights ... >note: I'm seeing egregious traffic violations by cars every time I drive now which was not true say 10yrs ago. Don't know what changed More cars on the road?

InCityDreams 4y ago
Perhaps the sensor is back a bit behind you? I know several places where the sensors are 30-60 metres away: it allows cars to pass thru in chunky groups.