8 ms·

The Car-Replacement Bicycle (The Bakfiets)

98 points by evolve2k 4y ago

abdullahkhalids 4y ago
Electric-assisted bicycles/scooters are a game changer when it comes to reducing car usage. There are lots of people today who cannot or will not use a manual bike or walk long distances because of health reasons or they don't like it etc. But these mini electric vehicles remove a lot of reasons for those who don't want the physical exertion but would still be willing to drop their car. And the more such people there are, the more it is easy to make our cities bike/walk friendly.
prmoustache 4y ago
I have been contemplating buying a bullit cargo bike for years but on all but one place I lived I would have had the storage required to store it inside. Can't see leaving a 5 to 8K€ bike in the streets. I am using a trailer and some front and back panniers instead. It is not entirely as practical as a cargo bike when you need the cargo but it is impressive the amount of shit you can still carry and the trailer is stored when unused.
- DanielHB 4y ago
  Almost all e-bikes and cargo bikes have removable batteries. The bike is usually not worth stealing if you take the battery out (a battery replacement will cost more than the thief could sell an used bike for and it is not that easy to flip parts) My e-bike is pretty expensive, but removing the battery, a good lock and insurance let me sleep easily with my bike outside Although I would say the main reason to NOT leave it outside is rain and snow, it damages the gearbox and chain. If you oil regularly it alleviates the problem a bit
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    > The bike is usually not worth stealing if you take the battery out E-Bikes without batteries are worth less (to thieves) than normal bikes? Because regular bikes, even very basic models, get stolen all the time.
    - m000 4y ago
      Regular bikes are lower risk to steal and easier to sell: The owner is less likely to go after you, and the purchaser also less likely to ask for proof of ownership. Stealing a bakfiets is pretty much like stealing a car: you need to have operate in a network to make a profit. Otherwise you are stuck with an expensive stolen bicycle, with the owner very likely trying to track you, and nobody willing to buy it without you proving that you own it.
      - Semaphor 4y ago
        That makes sense, thank you.
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    How is it that we have normalized leaving the car out at night, but not the bicycle? What would it take to normalize the bicycle as well? Proper parking spots with locks, not simply ad-hoc sidewalk space? Cars have just as many, if not more, parts to steal without moving the vehicle.
    - MagnumOpus 4y ago
      Grand Theft Auto is prosecuted as a felony and gets you sent to jail. Bike theft even of a $5k bike gets zero prosecution and lots of ridicule of the victim by police.
      - abdullahkhalids 4y ago
        My idea to reduce theft is that the city should provide not just the bike racks, but also the bike locks with those racks. Which means thieves have the option of either cutting the bike frame, or destroying city property which the police would probably have to actually pursue more seriously and which might be treated as a felony.
        prmoustache 4y ago
        The best idea to reduce theft is make selling stolen items more difficults. Most bike thieves don't keep the bikes for themselves. Which means global mamdatory ownership registration. Having said that it is very easy to steal only a handful of parts with mostly basic tools but I guess we could also have a tool to associate parts with ownership using serial numbers. The rest is just bandaid.
        dotancohen 4y ago
        > Which means global mamdatory ownership registration. As a private citizen, this sounds like an excuse for a surveillance state.
        prmoustache 4y ago
  - stinos 4y ago
    it damages the gearbox and chain Especially on electric bikes there's a shift towards 'integrated' gearing (either traditional in the back wheel or the new-ish Pinion systems), plus belt drive, which shouldn't have any problem with weather. That plus all bearings being properly sealed these days should make this a whole lot better than it used to. Still using the word 'should' because I don't have any experience myself apart from just riding through rain; I just cannot get over leaving any of my bikes outside, having been raised with strict 'no metal outside' policies :)
  - jononomo 4y ago
    What do you do with the battery once you've removed it? Doesn't it weigh 15 pounds or more? Do you just carry it with you while you do your grocery shopping?
    - Symbiote 4y ago
      For short trips (like shopping or even sitting at work) you lock the bike outside. Removing the battery is for overnight. (In Denmark; might not apply everywhere.)
- Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
  The Tern GSD can be stood upright, on its end, with the handlebars folded over, to reduce storage space. Not cheap but outstandingly good bikes.
jacquesm 4y ago
In the morning at grade school it looks like a bakfiets parking lot these days. There are easily 50 of them in all shapes and sizes, including two wheel ones (more maneuverable but tricky to ride and balance with a lot of weight in them). When I was a kid a bakfiets was a huge affair, always three wheeled, essentially a small person powered truck, and in Amsterdam they were super common for people working on the various open air markets and to haul produce and freight all over the city. Specialty versions were used to sell fish and bread from. These were large, with a bed about 1 meter wide, 1.5 meters long and a frame that weighed in at 35 Kg. It wasn't rare at all to see people move house using a bakfiets. We even had a profession called a 'brugop', someone who helps heavily loaded cargo bikes up the (many) bridges because you'd run out of momentum. Typically you'd get a dime for this and lots of kids made spare change doing this, but there were also adults doing it to live off. Over time, as minivans became more affordable the cargo bikes dropped in popularity, there was a hybrid moped/motorcycle bakfiets for a while and then they disappeared almost completely except as promotional devices or curiosities. Enter the Danish freezone Christiania where a bunch of artists and other people had the need for a cheap and environmentally friendly form of cargo transportation. A birthday present started off a trend that spread amongst the bike friendly countries in Western Europe: https://www.christianiabikes.com/uk/about-us/our-history/ https://www.christianiabikes.com/uk/about-us/our-history/
- fanf2 4y ago
  We have a long bakfiets (https://www.bakfiets.nl/modellen/cargobike-lang/cargobike-classic-long https://www.bakfiets.nl/modellen/cargobike-lang/cargobike-cl...) and I don’t remember it being tricky to ride or balance. It took one or two tries to get the hang of setting off, but the most difficult thing was getting used to its huge turning circle! These days I would recommend an electric assist version, though our old-skool model helps to keep me fit.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    I have no problem with it, but I know people that do, either because they are (much) slighter of build or because they are not such experienced cyclists. Kids moving around can upset your balance and that is something some people have a hard time correcting for. Fortunately COG is low so the effect is limited but I can see how for some it can be problematic. The turning radius is indeed another issue with those, their wheelbase rivals that of a (large) car, and you can't make very sharp turns. Trikes have similar issues, quick corners should be avoided and going downhill you really want to moderate your speed because the tadpole arrangement isn't very stable and it's super easy to flip a bakfiets at high speed.
DanielHB 4y ago
I have an e-bike and a couple that are friends of mine have one of those bakfiets, the video is 100% accurate. These friends of mine even sold their car after having the bakfiet for a year. Of course you are much more limited on where you live vs where you need to go compared to a car, but the cost difference is so dramatic you can literally afford to move (especially in places where car-parking is not free). But you do need decent biking infrastructure because those things are not drivable in heavy car-traffic streets (especially with children or pets in the basket) I myself live around 6km from my job and used to take public transportation to work, my (upper-end) e-bike paid itself in 2 years from not needing to pay public transport
raisin_churn 4y ago
If you don't have children and live in a relatively flat city, the car-replacement bicycle is even cheaper: any half-decent used mountain bike off craigslist, throw a pannier rack on the back of it and a pair of pannier bags, and never drive again. I think I'm about $400 deep into mine, including the rack, panniers, decent lock, lights with rechargeable batteries, and tires and tubes for the last 4,000 miles. So, not yet broken even compared to my 50mpg Prius if only taking gas into account, but I'd be way ahead if my wife would agree to sell the car and not have to pay insurance, registration+inspection, etc. My brother-in-law recently got an electric scooter for his work commute. I did the math, and at current gas prices and electricity prices, it saves him $4 a day in fuel, plus another $10 for parking, plus wear and tear on his high-end sports car. With three days a week in the office, without selling the car, the e-scooter pays for itself in less than four months, and the commute time is the same. And, when he does get in his car, it's not to go sit in traffic going to work, so he actually gets more enjoyment out of his nice car.
- Freak_NL 4y ago
  Most Dutch don't even bother with a bakfiets for children (bakfietsen are actually kind of top of the market and mostly used by more affluent parents). Just a (safe!) seat on the Dutch style rear carrier. With both a baby and a toddler some parents also have a baby seat mounted on the steering bars and a toddler seat on the rear carrier. Totally normal; I'm doing this every day with one kid. My kid just learned to ride a bicycle (without training wheels, going straight from balance bike to pedal bike) at 3½ years of age, so in a while he can ride along with us instead of being carried. (The perks of living in the Netherlands I guess.)
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Be very careful with a kid that young in traffic: they have some extra risks that you may not see coming until it happens, for instance, kids bikes for kids that age have the pedals so close to the ground that a kerb strike isn't a rarity and the response to that can put them (and possibly you) in line of a car passing you in an eyeblink. As for the bakfietsen being used by the more affluent parents: that used to be true but I have a family member that does not qualify as affluent by any stretch of the imagination and their bakfiets is their car replacement (they don't have a car) and that works very well for them. Such cases abound here (in NL), especially if one or more of the adults in a family do not have a driving license, which is more common than you might think. That said, the e-bike bakfietsen that are top of the range definitely are aimed upmarket but there are plenty of cheaper ones. For many years we used (and still use) a third-hand unpowered bakfiets that we probably put more kilometers on than on most of our other bikes except for my commuter one.
timwaagh 4y ago
Ridiculous to continue peddling bikes as replacement for cars. Im Dutch and I grew up in a family with all of the environmentalist nonsense surrounding bikes. So I never wanted one. They stink after all and I had some trauma from biking through a cloud of exhaust in Rotterdam. I started following car lessons three years ago because of work reasons. It wasn't easy because I was so extremely late to the party at 32. Turns out cars are the bikes I always wanted. They are fast, you can take someone along. They carry a bunch. I can't believe the amount of times I walked through the city with say a bunch of wood making a fool of myself. I totally put myself at a social disadvantage to the point where I think I would have been held in much higher regard if I had had one before. An extreme waste of time. That's not to say I hate bikes now. They are great for getting around the city when the weather is nice. They are also great for sport. But really get a license and a car the day you turn 18 if you can afford it. There are better hopes for the environment too (ie electric scooters + public transport and electric cars/motorcycles, synthetic diesel fuel).
- ralfn 4y ago
  >. I totally put myself at a social disadvantage to the point where I think I would have been held in much higher regard if I had had one before. From another Dutchie: get better friends >some trauma from biking through a cloud of exhaust in Rotterdam Now you are providing that trauma to others. At least drive something electric if you live in the city. It will be mandatory within cities soon anyway. >Turns out cars are the bikes I always wanted. Even in Rotterdam, if everyone switches to a car, it wouldn't fit. The only reason you find it pleasant to drive is because others aren't. >There are better hopes for the environment too (ie electric scooters + public transport and electric cars/motorcycles, synthetic diesel fuel). Yes to the first, but cars are too big by default. People should not own a car when living in a city. They should rent one on the days they need it. It's not just the space the car takes when you drive it. It's the space it takes when you park it. Go visit places where everyone takes the car. Everything is far apart because it's separated by oceans of parking. The average US city ends up dedicating more space to parking than to everything else combined. And yes, public transit is a great alternative, but only works with a minimum amount of population density, which cities indeed do have. But even in villages people should go at least electric, and the center should be car free, so it becomes a destination for people. No one wants to eat out next to a parking lot.
yourusername 4y ago
The bakfiets is the SUV of the bicycle path. People 30 years ago could get their kids to school in a normal car but now require some kind of offroad vehicle and people could get their kids to school on a normal bike but now require some kind of oversized monstrosity.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  This isn't true at all as far as the bikes are concerned. Cargo bikes to ferry kids to school are much easier for people to use than 'mommy bikes', the kids can get in and out far easier than on a regular bike where putting kids (especially more than one on) is always a very fine balancing act (and more than once I've had to catch a bike that was about to fall with one or more kids on it, my own and others). The low enter of gravity of a cargo bike helps as well. Lastly, cargo bikes are used for much more than just transporting kids, it isn't rare at all to see them used to haul groceries in quantities that would never fit in pannier bags. My s.o. vastly prefers the cargo bike over her regular bike with heavy loads, both for stability and for hauling capacity, even if it is a bit slower than the regular one. Five to six year olds are the hard case: technically too large for a regular bike seat, but too young to be in traffic. Having two of these quickly maxes out the carrying capacity of a normal bike, and when parents 'bikepool' taking neighbours kids along to school you regularly see a parent with up to four kids in a cargo bike, a feat you'd never manage on a regular bike. As for the SUV: those things shouldn't be in city traffic to begin with.
  - ragebol 4y ago
    All true, but I do regularly feel like I'm inconveniencing people when I park our cargo bike, since it sticks out beyond the other bikes. With some consideration it's fine, but when there's dozens, I kinda get the point. Still better than cars though, maybe I should just take a car spot...
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      > maybe I should just take a car spot That's exactly what I do when I use the cargo bike. Usually when I come back there is another one using the same spot :) I'm hoping for this to be institutionalized where car parking slowly gets transferred into permitted bike parking.
sonicgear1 4y ago
I hope for a future where the cities are returned to the people - no more cars on the streets.
RappingBoomer 4y ago
riding a bike is 10 times more dangerous than driving a car.... riding a motorcycle? 100 times...or so I hear....
fab13n 4y ago
I've had a bakfiets for 12+ year in France; I did DIY electrification at the time, as that was the only viable alternative then; both kids have been moved around in it since they're born (now my teenager can use our non-cargo e-bike, a RadExpand 5); I've already taxied two (petite) adult women at once in it; I use it as a wheelbarrow under steroids to bring wood pellets from parking spots to my boat's moorings, 7×15kg at a time; it truly replaces a second car, for a tiny fraction of the running expenses. They were a niche gadget before electrification went mainstream, but today, I really urge you to give it a try by renting one for a couple of days, it makes life more enjoyable in my experience, beyond the money saved.
- touisteur 4y ago
  Ha ha, Christmas tree, plaster and cement bags, sound equipment, 50 litres of beer (all that sloshing around made for a good story... And a very difficult ride). With the rain cover, I can ever pack as high as possible so during the covid lockdown I would max out all cargo space...
waspight 4y ago
I have a two wheeled bakfiets.nl (the brand and the type) and that is probably one of the best things I have ever bought. Can really recommend, especially if you have kids.

98 points by evolve2k 4y ago

Electric-assisted bicycles/scooters are a game changer when it comes to reducing car usage. There are lots of people today who cannot or will not use a manual bike or walk long distances because of health reasons or they don't like it etc. But these mini electric vehicles remove a lot of reasons for those who don't want the physical exertion but would still be willing to drop their car. And the more such people there are, the more it is easy to make our cities bike/walk friendly.

prmoustache 4y ago

I have been contemplating buying a bullit cargo bike for years but on all but one place I lived I would have had the storage required to store it inside. Can't see leaving a 5 to 8K€ bike in the streets. I am using a trailer and some front and back panniers instead. It is not entirely as practical as a cargo bike when you need the cargo but it is impressive the amount of shit you can still carry and the trailer is stored when unused.

DanielHB 4y ago
Almost all e-bikes and cargo bikes have removable batteries. The bike is usually not worth stealing if you take the battery out (a battery replacement will cost more than the thief could sell an used bike for and it is not that easy to flip parts) My e-bike is pretty expensive, but removing the battery, a good lock and insurance let me sleep easily with my bike outside Although I would say the main reason to NOT leave it outside is rain and snow, it damages the gearbox and chain. If you oil regularly it alleviates the problem a bit
- Semaphor 4y ago
  > The bike is usually not worth stealing if you take the battery out E-Bikes without batteries are worth less (to thieves) than normal bikes? Because regular bikes, even very basic models, get stolen all the time.
  - m000 4y ago
    Regular bikes are lower risk to steal and easier to sell: The owner is less likely to go after you, and the purchaser also less likely to ask for proof of ownership. Stealing a bakfiets is pretty much like stealing a car: you need to have operate in a network to make a profit. Otherwise you are stuck with an expensive stolen bicycle, with the owner very likely trying to track you, and nobody willing to buy it without you proving that you own it.
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      That makes sense, thank you.
- dotancohen 4y ago
  How is it that we have normalized leaving the car out at night, but not the bicycle? What would it take to normalize the bicycle as well? Proper parking spots with locks, not simply ad-hoc sidewalk space? Cars have just as many, if not more, parts to steal without moving the vehicle.
  - MagnumOpus 4y ago
    Grand Theft Auto is prosecuted as a felony and gets you sent to jail. Bike theft even of a $5k bike gets zero prosecution and lots of ridicule of the victim by police.
    - abdullahkhalids 4y ago
      My idea to reduce theft is that the city should provide not just the bike racks, but also the bike locks with those racks. Which means thieves have the option of either cutting the bike frame, or destroying city property which the police would probably have to actually pursue more seriously and which might be treated as a felony.
      - prmoustache 4y ago
        The best idea to reduce theft is make selling stolen items more difficults. Most bike thieves don't keep the bikes for themselves. Which means global mamdatory ownership registration. Having said that it is very easy to steal only a handful of parts with mostly basic tools but I guess we could also have a tool to associate parts with ownership using serial numbers. The rest is just bandaid.
        dotancohen 4y ago
        > Which means global mamdatory ownership registration. As a private citizen, this sounds like an excuse for a surveillance state.
        prmoustache 4y ago
- stinos 4y ago
  it damages the gearbox and chain Especially on electric bikes there's a shift towards 'integrated' gearing (either traditional in the back wheel or the new-ish Pinion systems), plus belt drive, which shouldn't have any problem with weather. That plus all bearings being properly sealed these days should make this a whole lot better than it used to. Still using the word 'should' because I don't have any experience myself apart from just riding through rain; I just cannot get over leaving any of my bikes outside, having been raised with strict 'no metal outside' policies :)
- jononomo 4y ago
  What do you do with the battery once you've removed it? Doesn't it weigh 15 pounds or more? Do you just carry it with you while you do your grocery shopping?
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    For short trips (like shopping or even sitting at work) you lock the bike outside. Removing the battery is for overnight. (In Denmark; might not apply everywhere.)
Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
The Tern GSD can be stood upright, on its end, with the handlebars folded over, to reduce storage space. Not cheap but outstandingly good bikes.

jacquesm 4y ago

In the morning at grade school it looks like a bakfiets parking lot these days. There are easily 50 of them in all shapes and sizes, including two wheel ones (more maneuverable but tricky to ride and balance with a lot of weight in them). When I was a kid a bakfiets was a huge affair, always three wheeled, essentially a small person powered truck, and in Amsterdam they were super common for people working on the various open air markets and to haul produce and freight all over the city. Specialty versions were used to sell fish and bread from. These were large, with a bed about 1 meter wide, 1.5 meters long and a frame that weighed in at 35 Kg. It wasn't rare at all to see people move house using a bakfiets. We even had a profession called a 'brugop', someone who helps heavily loaded cargo bikes up the (many) bridges because you'd run out of momentum. Typically you'd get a dime for this and lots of kids made spare change doing this, but there were also adults doing it to live off. Over time, as minivans became more affordable the cargo bikes dropped in popularity, there was a hybrid moped/motorcycle bakfiets for a while and then they disappeared almost completely except as promotional devices or curiosities. Enter the Danish freezone Christiania where a bunch of artists and other people had the need for a cheap and environmentally friendly form of cargo transportation. A birthday present started off a trend that spread amongst the bike friendly countries in Western Europe: https://www.christianiabikes.com/uk/about-us/our-history/ https://www.christianiabikes.com/uk/about-us/our-history/

fanf2 4y ago
We have a long bakfiets (https://www.bakfiets.nl/modellen/cargobike-lang/cargobike-classic-long https://www.bakfiets.nl/modellen/cargobike-lang/cargobike-cl...) and I don’t remember it being tricky to ride or balance. It took one or two tries to get the hang of setting off, but the most difficult thing was getting used to its huge turning circle! These days I would recommend an electric assist version, though our old-skool model helps to keep me fit.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  I have no problem with it, but I know people that do, either because they are (much) slighter of build or because they are not such experienced cyclists. Kids moving around can upset your balance and that is something some people have a hard time correcting for. Fortunately COG is low so the effect is limited but I can see how for some it can be problematic. The turning radius is indeed another issue with those, their wheelbase rivals that of a (large) car, and you can't make very sharp turns. Trikes have similar issues, quick corners should be avoided and going downhill you really want to moderate your speed because the tadpole arrangement isn't very stable and it's super easy to flip a bakfiets at high speed.

DanielHB 4y ago

I have an e-bike and a couple that are friends of mine have one of those bakfiets, the video is 100% accurate. These friends of mine even sold their car after having the bakfiet for a year. Of course you are much more limited on where you live vs where you need to go compared to a car, but the cost difference is so dramatic you can literally afford to move (especially in places where car-parking is not free). But you do need decent biking infrastructure because those things are not drivable in heavy car-traffic streets (especially with children or pets in the basket) I myself live around 6km from my job and used to take public transportation to work, my (upper-end) e-bike paid itself in 2 years from not needing to pay public transport

raisin_churn 4y ago

If you don't have children and live in a relatively flat city, the car-replacement bicycle is even cheaper: any half-decent used mountain bike off craigslist, throw a pannier rack on the back of it and a pair of pannier bags, and never drive again. I think I'm about $400 deep into mine, including the rack, panniers, decent lock, lights with rechargeable batteries, and tires and tubes for the last 4,000 miles. So, not yet broken even compared to my 50mpg Prius if only taking gas into account, but I'd be way ahead if my wife would agree to sell the car and not have to pay insurance, registration+inspection, etc. My brother-in-law recently got an electric scooter for his work commute. I did the math, and at current gas prices and electricity prices, it saves him $4 a day in fuel, plus another $10 for parking, plus wear and tear on his high-end sports car. With three days a week in the office, without selling the car, the e-scooter pays for itself in less than four months, and the commute time is the same. And, when he does get in his car, it's not to go sit in traffic going to work, so he actually gets more enjoyment out of his nice car.

Freak_NL 4y ago
Most Dutch don't even bother with a bakfiets for children (bakfietsen are actually kind of top of the market and mostly used by more affluent parents). Just a (safe!) seat on the Dutch style rear carrier. With both a baby and a toddler some parents also have a baby seat mounted on the steering bars and a toddler seat on the rear carrier. Totally normal; I'm doing this every day with one kid. My kid just learned to ride a bicycle (without training wheels, going straight from balance bike to pedal bike) at 3½ years of age, so in a while he can ride along with us instead of being carried. (The perks of living in the Netherlands I guess.)
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Be very careful with a kid that young in traffic: they have some extra risks that you may not see coming until it happens, for instance, kids bikes for kids that age have the pedals so close to the ground that a kerb strike isn't a rarity and the response to that can put them (and possibly you) in line of a car passing you in an eyeblink. As for the bakfietsen being used by the more affluent parents: that used to be true but I have a family member that does not qualify as affluent by any stretch of the imagination and their bakfiets is their car replacement (they don't have a car) and that works very well for them. Such cases abound here (in NL), especially if one or more of the adults in a family do not have a driving license, which is more common than you might think. That said, the e-bike bakfietsen that are top of the range definitely are aimed upmarket but there are plenty of cheaper ones. For many years we used (and still use) a third-hand unpowered bakfiets that we probably put more kilometers on than on most of our other bikes except for my commuter one.

timwaagh 4y ago

Ridiculous to continue peddling bikes as replacement for cars. Im Dutch and I grew up in a family with all of the environmentalist nonsense surrounding bikes. So I never wanted one. They stink after all and I had some trauma from biking through a cloud of exhaust in Rotterdam. I started following car lessons three years ago because of work reasons. It wasn't easy because I was so extremely late to the party at 32. Turns out cars are the bikes I always wanted. They are fast, you can take someone along. They carry a bunch. I can't believe the amount of times I walked through the city with say a bunch of wood making a fool of myself. I totally put myself at a social disadvantage to the point where I think I would have been held in much higher regard if I had had one before. An extreme waste of time. That's not to say I hate bikes now. They are great for getting around the city when the weather is nice. They are also great for sport. But really get a license and a car the day you turn 18 if you can afford it. There are better hopes for the environment too (ie electric scooters + public transport and electric cars/motorcycles, synthetic diesel fuel).

ralfn 4y ago
>. I totally put myself at a social disadvantage to the point where I think I would have been held in much higher regard if I had had one before. From another Dutchie: get better friends >some trauma from biking through a cloud of exhaust in Rotterdam Now you are providing that trauma to others. At least drive something electric if you live in the city. It will be mandatory within cities soon anyway. >Turns out cars are the bikes I always wanted. Even in Rotterdam, if everyone switches to a car, it wouldn't fit. The only reason you find it pleasant to drive is because others aren't. >There are better hopes for the environment too (ie electric scooters + public transport and electric cars/motorcycles, synthetic diesel fuel). Yes to the first, but cars are too big by default. People should not own a car when living in a city. They should rent one on the days they need it. It's not just the space the car takes when you drive it. It's the space it takes when you park it. Go visit places where everyone takes the car. Everything is far apart because it's separated by oceans of parking. The average US city ends up dedicating more space to parking than to everything else combined. And yes, public transit is a great alternative, but only works with a minimum amount of population density, which cities indeed do have. But even in villages people should go at least electric, and the center should be car free, so it becomes a destination for people. No one wants to eat out next to a parking lot.

yourusername 4y ago

The bakfiets is the SUV of the bicycle path. People 30 years ago could get their kids to school in a normal car but now require some kind of offroad vehicle and people could get their kids to school on a normal bike but now require some kind of oversized monstrosity.

jacquesm 4y ago
This isn't true at all as far as the bikes are concerned. Cargo bikes to ferry kids to school are much easier for people to use than 'mommy bikes', the kids can get in and out far easier than on a regular bike where putting kids (especially more than one on) is always a very fine balancing act (and more than once I've had to catch a bike that was about to fall with one or more kids on it, my own and others). The low enter of gravity of a cargo bike helps as well. Lastly, cargo bikes are used for much more than just transporting kids, it isn't rare at all to see them used to haul groceries in quantities that would never fit in pannier bags. My s.o. vastly prefers the cargo bike over her regular bike with heavy loads, both for stability and for hauling capacity, even if it is a bit slower than the regular one. Five to six year olds are the hard case: technically too large for a regular bike seat, but too young to be in traffic. Having two of these quickly maxes out the carrying capacity of a normal bike, and when parents 'bikepool' taking neighbours kids along to school you regularly see a parent with up to four kids in a cargo bike, a feat you'd never manage on a regular bike. As for the SUV: those things shouldn't be in city traffic to begin with.
- ragebol 4y ago
  All true, but I do regularly feel like I'm inconveniencing people when I park our cargo bike, since it sticks out beyond the other bikes. With some consideration it's fine, but when there's dozens, I kinda get the point. Still better than cars though, maybe I should just take a car spot...
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    > maybe I should just take a car spot That's exactly what I do when I use the cargo bike. Usually when I come back there is another one using the same spot :) I'm hoping for this to be institutionalized where car parking slowly gets transferred into permitted bike parking.

sonicgear1 4y ago

I hope for a future where the cities are returned to the people - no more cars on the streets.

RappingBoomer 4y ago

riding a bike is 10 times more dangerous than driving a car.... riding a motorcycle? 100 times...or so I hear....

fab13n 4y ago

I've had a bakfiets for 12+ year in France; I did DIY electrification at the time, as that was the only viable alternative then; both kids have been moved around in it since they're born (now my teenager can use our non-cargo e-bike, a RadExpand 5); I've already taxied two (petite) adult women at once in it; I use it as a wheelbarrow under steroids to bring wood pellets from parking spots to my boat's moorings, 7×15kg at a time; it truly replaces a second car, for a tiny fraction of the running expenses. They were a niche gadget before electrification went mainstream, but today, I really urge you to give it a try by renting one for a couple of days, it makes life more enjoyable in my experience, beyond the money saved.

touisteur 4y ago
Ha ha, Christmas tree, plaster and cement bags, sound equipment, 50 litres of beer (all that sloshing around made for a good story... And a very difficult ride). With the rain cover, I can ever pack as high as possible so during the covid lockdown I would max out all cargo space...

waspight 4y ago

I have a two wheeled bakfiets.nl (the brand and the type) and that is probably one of the best things I have ever bought. Can really recommend, especially if you have kids.