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> the notion of magic essentially means the ability to use willpower to modify physical laws so the harnessing of nuclear power was not due to willpower..? an

> the notion of magic essentially means the ability to use willpower to modify physical laws so the harnessing of nuclear power was not due to willpower..? and of course reality is dual- otherwise what is mathematics made of? or how is anything similar to or separate from anything else, without some out-of-band judgement?

tsimionescu 4y ago
> so the harnessing of nuclear power was not due to willpower..? Let me put it like this. We know that we can use water to grow vines, harvest and ferment grapes, and make wine. However, we still see Jesus/God turning water into wine as a magical event. Harnessing nuclear power is like turning water into wine by using it to grow grapes. We have discovered that certain materials have the property that they become very hot in certain conditions, and we can use our willpower to move our hands and feet to build machines that do this. But magic refers to us (or some other being) using its willpower to achieve such effects directly. Just like you or I can will our hands into moving, a wizard or god can will the seas into parting. > and of course reality is dual- otherwise what is mathematics made of? or how is anything similar to or separate from anything else, without some out-of-band judgement? What is a Linux made of? Ultimately, it is some configuration of fundamental fields that defines it, either in a computer or in our brains. Now, did Linux, or Pyhtagoras' theorem, exist immediately after the Big Bang? In some sense, you can say that they did, because a hypothetical sentient being would have been able to formulate them just as much as we can today. But then, in this sense, the Empire State building also existed at the time of Big Bang. In a much more concrete sense, no - these things only started existing when they were thought up or built by some human minds, and in this sense the copy of Pythagoras' Theorem in my mind is just as much a physical object as Linux is on my phone and as the Empire State building is in Manhattan.

tsimionescu 4y ago

> so the harnessing of nuclear power was not due to willpower..? Let me put it like this. We know that we can use water to grow vines, harvest and ferment grapes, and make wine. However, we still see Jesus/God turning water into wine as a magical event. Harnessing nuclear power is like turning water into wine by using it to grow grapes. We have discovered that certain materials have the property that they become very hot in certain conditions, and we can use our willpower to move our hands and feet to build machines that do this. But magic refers to us (or some other being) using its willpower to achieve such effects directly. Just like you or I can will our hands into moving, a wizard or god can will the seas into parting. > and of course reality is dual- otherwise what is mathematics made of? or how is anything similar to or separate from anything else, without some out-of-band judgement? What is a Linux made of? Ultimately, it is some configuration of fundamental fields that defines it, either in a computer or in our brains. Now, did Linux, or Pyhtagoras' theorem, exist immediately after the Big Bang? In some sense, you can say that they did, because a hypothetical sentient being would have been able to formulate them just as much as we can today. But then, in this sense, the Empire State building also existed at the time of Big Bang. In a much more concrete sense, no - these things only started existing when they were thought up or built by some human minds, and in this sense the copy of Pythagoras' Theorem in my mind is just as much a physical object as Linux is on my phone and as the Empire State building is in Manhattan.