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Is the VR a compelling upgrade over the 2D experience? In particular does it help with the controls? (Can you directly interact with them?) Finally, if I can

Is the VR a compelling upgrade over the 2D experience? In particular does it help with the controls? (Can you directly interact with them?) Finally, if I can be so bold, how much hardware did you need to pull off VR? Does it require a high end Nvidia 3080 or 3090?

tiff_seattle 4y ago
It's a very compelling experience. It's kind of mind blowing to take your F-16 and casually glance at real world scenery outside your cockpit. The most immersive controls are hardware HOTAS/Yoke controllers, IMO. It runs fine for me on an RTX2080 and a Vive Pro.
daviding 4y ago
Recommending VR gaming to someone is hard, it's like saying 'Go on this rollercoaster, you'll love it!' which a good chunk of people will just not enjoy it. There are moments of brilliance and kludgy pits of annoyance. I personally love it. I'm sat here with pretty much every headset made in the last 7 years, so I'm probably not a neutral person to ask. Try it first if you can. If you like it then going back to 2D is sort of hard. For a PC, yep for flight/driving sims the bigger the monster the better. I use a Nvidia 3080Ti and an i9 overclocked cooled water to an inch of its life and I still struggle with framerate. There is always a bigger fish to buy next year though. The again, it's cheaper than other hobbies like boats or flying for real (airliners at least) so like anything it's really the value you get out of it.
- hirundo 4y ago
  > I'm sat here with pretty much every headset made in the last 7 years, so I'm probably not a neutral person to ask. Got a favorite? Which headset gives the best overall experience?
  - daviding 4y ago
    That's a hard question, as they are all a little flawed in some way. Something like: Varjo Aero - probably the nicest overall, but quite expensive. HP Reverb G2 - nice for sit-down VR like simulators etc. Not great for general VR so much. Meta Quest 2 - good entry level for general VR as it can be stand-alone (no wires!) or PC linked and is probably the best value overall. Valve Index - probably the nicest stand-up VR overall package due to its tracking tech, but getting long in the tooth now and needs a revision.
    - azalemeth 4y ago
      This is very helpful -- thank you. What's their Linux compatibility like?
      - izacus 4y ago
        VR is finnicky enough on Windows, adding Linux into the mix is pretty much a no-go for any game supporting it.
    - dncornholio 4y ago
      I would not recommend Quest 2 for flight sim: Terrible image quality and noticeable latency. I cannot recommend this headset anymore after having tried the G2. The only thing the Quest 2 has going for it is the price. A nice 2nd hand G2 reverb is the best choice IMO for overall value atm.
outworlder 4y ago
I would say that yes, it is. Sure, you can fire up MSFS 2020 and look around with the mouse and go, 'yep, looks like a plane'. But switch to VR and it's "omg, that's a plane! Also, I had no idea the cockpit was so tiny!" You actually get an idea of the scale of the plane you are flying in. You get better distance perception too, as you would expect. Once the initial shock passes, you are done looking around and you decide to actually fly, you'll notice a major difference: you will spend more time looking out of the cockpit. Just like you would expect in a real aircraft flying under VFR. Because it's easy, and natural to do. Generally people spend too much time looking at instruments when flight simming. Because as gorgeous as the MSFS scenery is, it's still 2D. That changes a lot when you can look out. And no, TrackIR is not a good substitute. It does help, but it all feels 'fake'. The thing is, specially with the current VR generation, that looking at cockpit instruments is actually a hassle (even more so for glass cockpits). The resolution is good enough for scenery but not as good if you want to read fine print. Of course you can move your head and 'look closer' at them just like if you had bad eyesight. It's totally doable, but can be tiring. Bottom line. I would say it's very worth it specially if you fly GA aircraft (big tubes doing standard procedures at 30000ft are ok too, but stereoscopic volumetric clouds can only hold one's interest for so long). If we had higher resolution, I would say "absolutely, get one yesterday". As it is, there's a good chance you'll like it, and you can do it with even a first generation Rift, or a Quest. As for GPUs. I could run on a RX580 by turning down a bunch of settings. You need to keep the framerate up. I would not recommend going that low end - even more now that GPU prices are coming down – as I would still get nasty frame skips from time to time. But hey, it worked. I got a AMD 5700XT and it runs perfectly fine now. The official recommended VR specs are a RTX 2080Ti or better. Minimum is listed as GTX1080.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  > Just like you would expect in a real aircraft flying under VFR. Because it's easy, and natural to do. Generally people spend too much time looking at instruments when flight simming. They also can spend too much time looking at instruments when flying VFR. It's something a real CFI will(should) remind you when you're doing your flight training: Do your scan but remember to otherwise keep your eyes outside the window. Especially today, with all the glass panels, moving maps, ADS-B traffic displays... the temptation to fly with your nose in the cockpit is ever present.
meheleventyone 4y ago
I’ve not actually tried MSFS with VR but playing other flight sims with it is incredible. A never go back to flat screens experience. In particular it maps well to having physical controllers and being seated all the time.
exDM69 4y ago
Head tracking is quite a nice middle ground. TrackIR is the best known commercial product but you can find free alternatives with DIY hardware. With TrackIR (or equiv) you can see your surroundings, including your flight controllers. VR sure can be nice for some sightseeing when you're just flying around, but for longer flight simulation where you need to deal with radios, navigation equipment, aircraft systems, flaps, landing gear, etc it gets difficult. You need to have all of those buttons mapped and memorized so that you can find them without seeing them. I've heard some of the newest headsets have a camera for "seeing through" but I don't know how well they're suited to flight simming. Before you ask: yeah, the picture doesn't move when your head moves. It's kinda like controlling the in-game camera with your nose. The response is non-linear (and configurable). Looking at the instruments in the cockpit is very natural, just glance at the location on the monitor and you meet in the middle. As you look further away from the middle, the response gets more non-linear so when you look at the edge of your screen you should see about +/- 90 degrees (perfect for general aviation). Really extreme angles like looking backwards isn't really needed for general aviation but if you do dogfighting, it's possible too but you might need to compromise a little bit with the non-linearity of the response. I play MSFS with a TrackIR 5 head tracker and a medium-large 16:9 display and I use an Xbox gaming controller (with sensitivity at -70), keyboard and mouse. I've got a set of flight controllers in a box in the attic, but setting them up on the same desk where I work is too much to bother.
izacus 4y ago
> Is the VR a compelling upgrade over the 2D experience? It's honestly hard to go back? When I tried it in DCS for the first time, it was pretty blown away. You can actually see that cockpit dials are recessed into the cockpit, you can see exactly how big the space is (smaller than it feels in 2D!) and just looking around you makes for much much more immersive experience. There are downsides though - clicking stuff is harder. The resolution is lower. The fps usually suffers. The whole setup is finnicky with a lot of cables. It costs a lot of money. But for flight sim enthusiasts? It's a massive experience upgrade for a still reasonable cost (considering that HP G2 headset costs about the same as quality Virpil HOTAS set).
GekkePrutser 4y ago
I've flown real planes too and yes. I've never felt really like flying in a simulator and that includes a moving cockpit one I've used, until I flew in VR. For flight simming VR is invaluable. Of course YMMV

tiff_seattle 4y ago

It's a very compelling experience. It's kind of mind blowing to take your F-16 and casually glance at real world scenery outside your cockpit. The most immersive controls are hardware HOTAS/Yoke controllers, IMO. It runs fine for me on an RTX2080 and a Vive Pro.

daviding 4y ago

Recommending VR gaming to someone is hard, it's like saying 'Go on this rollercoaster, you'll love it!' which a good chunk of people will just not enjoy it. There are moments of brilliance and kludgy pits of annoyance. I personally love it. I'm sat here with pretty much every headset made in the last 7 years, so I'm probably not a neutral person to ask. Try it first if you can. If you like it then going back to 2D is sort of hard. For a PC, yep for flight/driving sims the bigger the monster the better. I use a Nvidia 3080Ti and an i9 overclocked cooled water to an inch of its life and I still struggle with framerate. There is always a bigger fish to buy next year though. The again, it's cheaper than other hobbies like boats or flying for real (airliners at least) so like anything it's really the value you get out of it.

hirundo 4y ago
> I'm sat here with pretty much every headset made in the last 7 years, so I'm probably not a neutral person to ask. Got a favorite? Which headset gives the best overall experience?
- daviding 4y ago
  That's a hard question, as they are all a little flawed in some way. Something like: Varjo Aero - probably the nicest overall, but quite expensive. HP Reverb G2 - nice for sit-down VR like simulators etc. Not great for general VR so much. Meta Quest 2 - good entry level for general VR as it can be stand-alone (no wires!) or PC linked and is probably the best value overall. Valve Index - probably the nicest stand-up VR overall package due to its tracking tech, but getting long in the tooth now and needs a revision.
  - azalemeth 4y ago
    This is very helpful -- thank you. What's their Linux compatibility like?
    - izacus 4y ago
      VR is finnicky enough on Windows, adding Linux into the mix is pretty much a no-go for any game supporting it.
  - dncornholio 4y ago
    I would not recommend Quest 2 for flight sim: Terrible image quality and noticeable latency. I cannot recommend this headset anymore after having tried the G2. The only thing the Quest 2 has going for it is the price. A nice 2nd hand G2 reverb is the best choice IMO for overall value atm.

outworlder 4y ago

I would say that yes, it is. Sure, you can fire up MSFS 2020 and look around with the mouse and go, 'yep, looks like a plane'. But switch to VR and it's "omg, that's a plane! Also, I had no idea the cockpit was so tiny!" You actually get an idea of the scale of the plane you are flying in. You get better distance perception too, as you would expect. Once the initial shock passes, you are done looking around and you decide to actually fly, you'll notice a major difference: you will spend more time looking out of the cockpit. Just like you would expect in a real aircraft flying under VFR. Because it's easy, and natural to do. Generally people spend too much time looking at instruments when flight simming. Because as gorgeous as the MSFS scenery is, it's still 2D. That changes a lot when you can look out. And no, TrackIR is not a good substitute. It does help, but it all feels 'fake'. The thing is, specially with the current VR generation, that looking at cockpit instruments is actually a hassle (even more so for glass cockpits). The resolution is good enough for scenery but not as good if you want to read fine print. Of course you can move your head and 'look closer' at them just like if you had bad eyesight. It's totally doable, but can be tiring. Bottom line. I would say it's very worth it specially if you fly GA aircraft (big tubes doing standard procedures at 30000ft are ok too, but stereoscopic volumetric clouds can only hold one's interest for so long). If we had higher resolution, I would say "absolutely, get one yesterday". As it is, there's a good chance you'll like it, and you can do it with even a first generation Rift, or a Quest. As for GPUs. I could run on a RX580 by turning down a bunch of settings. You need to keep the framerate up. I would not recommend going that low end - even more now that GPU prices are coming down – as I would still get nasty frame skips from time to time. But hey, it worked. I got a AMD 5700XT and it runs perfectly fine now. The official recommended VR specs are a RTX 2080Ti or better. Minimum is listed as GTX1080.

ryandrake 4y ago
> Just like you would expect in a real aircraft flying under VFR. Because it's easy, and natural to do. Generally people spend too much time looking at instruments when flight simming. They also can spend too much time looking at instruments when flying VFR. It's something a real CFI will(should) remind you when you're doing your flight training: Do your scan but remember to otherwise keep your eyes outside the window. Especially today, with all the glass panels, moving maps, ADS-B traffic displays... the temptation to fly with your nose in the cockpit is ever present.

meheleventyone 4y ago

I’ve not actually tried MSFS with VR but playing other flight sims with it is incredible. A never go back to flat screens experience. In particular it maps well to having physical controllers and being seated all the time.

exDM69 4y ago

Head tracking is quite a nice middle ground. TrackIR is the best known commercial product but you can find free alternatives with DIY hardware. With TrackIR (or equiv) you can see your surroundings, including your flight controllers. VR sure can be nice for some sightseeing when you're just flying around, but for longer flight simulation where you need to deal with radios, navigation equipment, aircraft systems, flaps, landing gear, etc it gets difficult. You need to have all of those buttons mapped and memorized so that you can find them without seeing them. I've heard some of the newest headsets have a camera for "seeing through" but I don't know how well they're suited to flight simming. Before you ask: yeah, the picture doesn't move when your head moves. It's kinda like controlling the in-game camera with your nose. The response is non-linear (and configurable). Looking at the instruments in the cockpit is very natural, just glance at the location on the monitor and you meet in the middle. As you look further away from the middle, the response gets more non-linear so when you look at the edge of your screen you should see about +/- 90 degrees (perfect for general aviation). Really extreme angles like looking backwards isn't really needed for general aviation but if you do dogfighting, it's possible too but you might need to compromise a little bit with the non-linearity of the response. I play MSFS with a TrackIR 5 head tracker and a medium-large 16:9 display and I use an Xbox gaming controller (with sensitivity at -70), keyboard and mouse. I've got a set of flight controllers in a box in the attic, but setting them up on the same desk where I work is too much to bother.

izacus 4y ago

> Is the VR a compelling upgrade over the 2D experience? It's honestly hard to go back? When I tried it in DCS for the first time, it was pretty blown away. You can actually see that cockpit dials are recessed into the cockpit, you can see exactly how big the space is (smaller than it feels in 2D!) and just looking around you makes for much much more immersive experience. There are downsides though - clicking stuff is harder. The resolution is lower. The fps usually suffers. The whole setup is finnicky with a lot of cables. It costs a lot of money. But for flight sim enthusiasts? It's a massive experience upgrade for a still reasonable cost (considering that HP G2 headset costs about the same as quality Virpil HOTAS set).

GekkePrutser 4y ago

I've flown real planes too and yes. I've never felt really like flying in a simulator and that includes a moving cockpit one I've used, until I flew in VR. For flight simming VR is invaluable. Of course YMMV