3 ms·

I worked in the US and felt that H1B status was very insecure so I tried to start my own company in India in 2020, and also explored the job and housing market.

by jitix 4y ago

I worked in the US and felt that H1B status was very insecure so I tried to start my own company in India in 2020, and also explored the job and housing market. I agree 100% with all the great financial and work-related competitive points you've highlighted but I believe it misses the human and quality of life factors. Things that really affected my mental health in India during that time: 1. Food: Lack of variety in food and food ingredients. I like to eat out and cook different cuisines (Japanese to Korean to Middle eastern to French to Northern European). Beef is a major issue in India and fresh sushi can be a hit or miss even in Balgalore. And nothing is available if you're outside of the major metro cities. 2. Prices: If you're in Bangalore you do get a wide variety of food including beef dishes but equivalent quality restaurants and bars in India have the similar range prices as the US (I used to live in the south so it might not be apples to apples). Same goes for food ingredients - e.g. Almond milk and cheddar cheese costs the same in India as in the US. 3. Traffic and honking: Even sitting in an Uber for 30 mins can be maddening for me. Not to mention people actually yell obscenities at each other in traffic jams. 4. Interruptions: India still has power cuts, water supply and flooding issues and the bigger the city (with more opportunities) the worse these problems are. The gated communities in the metros alleviate many of these issues but then you're paying $1000 or more per month in rent or purchase for $600-700K. So same as most developed countries. My conclusion was that if you got somewhat acclimated to the having a better QoL in the west (which is different than standard of living) you really need to try living there for a few months and see if it makes financial sense, because you'll be paying western prices on a Indian salary. As always YMMV depending on your preferences. I myself ended up moving to Canada. edit: fixed typo

stainforth 4y ago
Sounds like those points are all ripe opportunities for startups of their own no? Just a matter of identifying market gaps, I'm sure that's why US companies have hired so many Indians, just simple filling of needs and not some other mechanic as to way the world works.
- fn-mote 4y ago
  Pretty sure you forgot the /s but just in case: a startup to fix "power cuts, water supply and flooding issues"? Like "startup government". I guess that's what the gated communities are?
  - int_19h 4y ago
    "Snow Crash" described the logical conclusion of such a development: "Have to bulldoze lots of neighborhoods to do it, but those seventies and eighties developments exist to be bulldozed, right? No sidewalks, no schools, no nothing. Don’t have their own police force — no immigration control — undesirables can walk right in without being frisked or even harassed. Now a Burbclave, that’s the place to live. A city-state with its own constitution, a border, laws, cops, everything." "MetaCops Unlimited is the official peacekeeping force of White Columns, and also of The Mews at Windsor Heights, The Heights at Bear Run, Cinnamon Grove, and The Farms of Cloverdelle. They also enforce traffic regulations on all highways and byways operated by Fairlanes, Inc. ... MetaCops’ main competitor, WorldBeat Security, handles all roads belonging to Cruiseways, plus has worldwide contracts with Dixie Traditionals, Pickett’s Plantation, Rainbow Heights (check it out—two apartheid Burbclaves and one for black suits), Meadowvale on the [insert name of river] and Brickyard Station."
    - AtulFotedar 4y ago
      Balaji recently wrote about a version of startup communities in his book The Network State. Although, he talked about first creating virtual communities and then agglomerating enough critical mass to enable people to demand physical changes in the infrastructure/ affect government in the real world. He also speaks highly of India in a related context because of the proliferation of technology supported by the fact that major technology shapers hail from India among other things. I don't agree with many of the views and feel like India is missing a key piece. We are not a single country (never have been as goes popular meme goes). It is hard for us as a nation to optimise for success because we have too many competing priorities at the local, state and lower levels. The exaggerated impact of diversity stemming from diverse cultures is too much to handle and optimise for one country's leadership in my humble opinion. I want to think differently but unfortunately the ground reality is telling for e.g., if you only look at the garbage dumps across various cities despite a national campaign of cleanliness. We as a people needed to be made aware in 50+ languages that we should hesitate from destroying our surroundings and not trash them. It is easy to think that a 5Gbps connection with air conditioning and organic rations just arrives out of nowhere as it sometimes does in many industrialised/developed countries in the West. There is basic infrastructure that is needed not just to stimulate the economy but also allows for those lowest in the social rungs to benefit and operate like normal human beings do in the West. This is nothing new of course and we all have seen the disparities in large Indian cities. Some even tend to compare it to what is happening in SF and other large cities in the US. My experience is that the environment I was in, both in Singapore and US brought out the best in me. I could spend my intellectual bandwidth on things that actually mattered to the larger society around me. One could say that the return on investment (action/thought ratio) was much higher because I was enabled by basic infrastructure. I didn't have to care about rowdy neighbours or worms in chocolates or dysfunctional municipal services (comparing the occurrence of these disturbances among others to problems like gun violence is a bit ridiculous in terms of the impact they cause on day to day life for an average common person). All this is not to say that India is doomed and there is nothing happening here or possible in the long term future. I'm just opining that it takes a lot of basic needs to be satisfied for a society to operate optimally. Without being too cynical, Kunal Bahl had a basic foundation to leave MS and build Snapdeal (after pursuing a great education in the US). It's not impossible and is a worthy dream that many if not all should pursue but the popular narrative that India is now ripe to be the next Silicon Valley is not realistic. And to me it feels like most technology (only) solutions to societal challenges are like a band-aid. The solutions need to be deeper and cultural, and as much of a curmudgeon this might make me seem, Government needs to be involved in those solutions. Not just government marketing and branding as has become popular these days but actual government action. It will be hard for a large part of the population to see beyond the marketing so yes, it will be an uphill battle. Apologies for the rant (maybe this should have been a warning up top). There is no TL;DR for this post either because it's a horrible summary of my unquantified opinions.

by jitix 4y ago

stainforth 4y ago

Sounds like those points are all ripe opportunities for startups of their own no? Just a matter of identifying market gaps, I'm sure that's why US companies have hired so many Indians, just simple filling of needs and not some other mechanic as to way the world works.

fn-mote 4y ago
Pretty sure you forgot the /s but just in case: a startup to fix "power cuts, water supply and flooding issues"? Like "startup government". I guess that's what the gated communities are?
- int_19h 4y ago
  "Snow Crash" described the logical conclusion of such a development: "Have to bulldoze lots of neighborhoods to do it, but those seventies and eighties developments exist to be bulldozed, right? No sidewalks, no schools, no nothing. Don’t have their own police force — no immigration control — undesirables can walk right in without being frisked or even harassed. Now a Burbclave, that’s the place to live. A city-state with its own constitution, a border, laws, cops, everything." "MetaCops Unlimited is the official peacekeeping force of White Columns, and also of The Mews at Windsor Heights, The Heights at Bear Run, Cinnamon Grove, and The Farms of Cloverdelle. They also enforce traffic regulations on all highways and byways operated by Fairlanes, Inc. ... MetaCops’ main competitor, WorldBeat Security, handles all roads belonging to Cruiseways, plus has worldwide contracts with Dixie Traditionals, Pickett’s Plantation, Rainbow Heights (check it out—two apartheid Burbclaves and one for black suits), Meadowvale on the [insert name of river] and Brickyard Station."
  - AtulFotedar 4y ago
    Balaji recently wrote about a version of startup communities in his book The Network State. Although, he talked about first creating virtual communities and then agglomerating enough critical mass to enable people to demand physical changes in the infrastructure/ affect government in the real world. He also speaks highly of India in a related context because of the proliferation of technology supported by the fact that major technology shapers hail from India among other things. I don't agree with many of the views and feel like India is missing a key piece. We are not a single country (never have been as goes popular meme goes). It is hard for us as a nation to optimise for success because we have too many competing priorities at the local, state and lower levels. The exaggerated impact of diversity stemming from diverse cultures is too much to handle and optimise for one country's leadership in my humble opinion. I want to think differently but unfortunately the ground reality is telling for e.g., if you only look at the garbage dumps across various cities despite a national campaign of cleanliness. We as a people needed to be made aware in 50+ languages that we should hesitate from destroying our surroundings and not trash them. It is easy to think that a 5Gbps connection with air conditioning and organic rations just arrives out of nowhere as it sometimes does in many industrialised/developed countries in the West. There is basic infrastructure that is needed not just to stimulate the economy but also allows for those lowest in the social rungs to benefit and operate like normal human beings do in the West. This is nothing new of course and we all have seen the disparities in large Indian cities. Some even tend to compare it to what is happening in SF and other large cities in the US. My experience is that the environment I was in, both in Singapore and US brought out the best in me. I could spend my intellectual bandwidth on things that actually mattered to the larger society around me. One could say that the return on investment (action/thought ratio) was much higher because I was enabled by basic infrastructure. I didn't have to care about rowdy neighbours or worms in chocolates or dysfunctional municipal services (comparing the occurrence of these disturbances among others to problems like gun violence is a bit ridiculous in terms of the impact they cause on day to day life for an average common person). All this is not to say that India is doomed and there is nothing happening here or possible in the long term future. I'm just opining that it takes a lot of basic needs to be satisfied for a society to operate optimally. Without being too cynical, Kunal Bahl had a basic foundation to leave MS and build Snapdeal (after pursuing a great education in the US). It's not impossible and is a worthy dream that many if not all should pursue but the popular narrative that India is now ripe to be the next Silicon Valley is not realistic. And to me it feels like most technology (only) solutions to societal challenges are like a band-aid. The solutions need to be deeper and cultural, and as much of a curmudgeon this might make me seem, Government needs to be involved in those solutions. Not just government marketing and branding as has become popular these days but actual government action. It will be hard for a large part of the population to see beyond the marketing so yes, it will be an uphill battle. Apologies for the rant (maybe this should have been a warning up top). There is no TL;DR for this post either because it's a horrible summary of my unquantified opinions.