5 ms·

i'm there with you as far as LA is concerned, but too bad most people here are focused on all the manufactured media distractions instead. for instance, abortio

i'm there with you as far as LA is concerned, but too bad most people here are focused on all the manufactured media distractions instead. for instance, abortion issues[0] affect literally no one here in LA (because CA law), and yet, so much talk centers around it here instead of the housing crisis and other stark disparities. [0]: i'm pro-abortion via the absolute right to bodily autonomy, but no, i don't support the current media rhetoric or focus.

colinmhayes 4y ago
Abortion laws affect everyone in this country. Every unwanted child grows up to be a citizen here that you and I and everyone else will have to interact with. The econ literature has shown that about 40% of the reduction in violent crime since the 90's has been due to the proliferation of abortion.
- clairity 4y ago
  first, if you truly believe that, i have a bridge to sell you in arizona. economists make unwarranted claims buttressed by biased models all the time. second, that's ultimately a racist argument disguised behind safetyism, neither of which have a leg to stand on. every unwanted child still wants to grow up, be they poor or brown or whatever. let's welcome them rather than paint them over with disgust and wanton disposability. besides, the point was not to debate abortion, but that it's an (wedge) issue used to distract and divide, rather than focusing the populace on the most pressing problems we face. covid, mass shootings, or climate change (as opposed to pollution) are suitable alternative distractions to consider in place of abortion.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    Nothing racist about wanting less unwanted children. Mothers have abortions for a reason. They know the time isn't right.
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  I agree with your sentiment, but why does that coincide with stopping leaded gasoline production?
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    The removal of lead from gas is the other major factor.
svieira 4y ago
Agreed about the other disparities. But I don't think you'll find one starker than abortion. The right to bodily autonomy is not absolute. If it were, you could (morally) deliberately drop someone you where holding off the side of a cliff. After all, they don't have a right to your arm. (But they do in this circumstance).
- clairity 4y ago
  that's arguing semantics (about "absolute"), not addressing the overwhelming experience of the right to bodily autonomy. we live in a complicated sociopolitical world and one contrived thought experiment doesn't a refutation make. by right, people get to choose what to do with their own bodies when harm to others is small not simply zero (e.g., smoking).
  - svieira 4y ago
    The harm in this case is death (which definitely impinges on the bodily autonomy of the child). The cost to the mother is gestation (9 months of intimate support). There is no other who could provide this support. The child did not place themselves in this position of dependence, but were placed there (by the mother and father, but most of the time this is not _intended_ either, though it could be).
    - clairity 4y ago
      there's a gradient between 'nothing' and 'human', and things toward the 'nothing' end can't invoke bodily autonomy, especially against actual humans with real, functional bodies.
      - svieira 4y ago
        The child has a real, functioning body. From the moment of conception there's a separate self-organizing organism performing processes that will improve their body. The mother also has one. Both of them are human bodies.

colinmhayes 4y ago

Abortion laws affect everyone in this country. Every unwanted child grows up to be a citizen here that you and I and everyone else will have to interact with. The econ literature has shown that about 40% of the reduction in violent crime since the 90's has been due to the proliferation of abortion.

clairity 4y ago
first, if you truly believe that, i have a bridge to sell you in arizona. economists make unwarranted claims buttressed by biased models all the time. second, that's ultimately a racist argument disguised behind safetyism, neither of which have a leg to stand on. every unwanted child still wants to grow up, be they poor or brown or whatever. let's welcome them rather than paint them over with disgust and wanton disposability. besides, the point was not to debate abortion, but that it's an (wedge) issue used to distract and divide, rather than focusing the populace on the most pressing problems we face. covid, mass shootings, or climate change (as opposed to pollution) are suitable alternative distractions to consider in place of abortion.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  Nothing racist about wanting less unwanted children. Mothers have abortions for a reason. They know the time isn't right.
dzhiurgis 4y ago
I agree with your sentiment, but why does that coincide with stopping leaded gasoline production?
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  The removal of lead from gas is the other major factor.

svieira 4y ago

Agreed about the other disparities. But I don't think you'll find one starker than abortion. The right to bodily autonomy is not absolute. If it were, you could (morally) deliberately drop someone you where holding off the side of a cliff. After all, they don't have a right to your arm. (But they do in this circumstance).

clairity 4y ago
that's arguing semantics (about "absolute"), not addressing the overwhelming experience of the right to bodily autonomy. we live in a complicated sociopolitical world and one contrived thought experiment doesn't a refutation make. by right, people get to choose what to do with their own bodies when harm to others is small not simply zero (e.g., smoking).
- svieira 4y ago
  The harm in this case is death (which definitely impinges on the bodily autonomy of the child). The cost to the mother is gestation (9 months of intimate support). There is no other who could provide this support. The child did not place themselves in this position of dependence, but were placed there (by the mother and father, but most of the time this is not _intended_ either, though it could be).
  - clairity 4y ago
    there's a gradient between 'nothing' and 'human', and things toward the 'nothing' end can't invoke bodily autonomy, especially against actual humans with real, functional bodies.
    - svieira 4y ago
      The child has a real, functioning body. From the moment of conception there's a separate self-organizing organism performing processes that will improve their body. The mother also has one. Both of them are human bodies.