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> How can you make housing not an investment? I think if it's an investment, that's fine. The problem is when housing is allowed to become a speculative invest

> How can you make housing not an investment? I think if it's an investment, that's fine. The problem is when housing is allowed to become a speculative investment, and the investment activity on housing begins to seriously threaten the actual housing activity. So for example you could do one or more of the following: - Adjust mortgage rates on homes owned but not lived in (eg: triple them) - Completely ban owning more than one home - Implement a sliding tax on rental income (the more units you collect on, the higher the tax you pay) - Bring back (or implement) rent controls and have them geared to cost of living Basically anything that makes it less feasible to profit off of people who just want a safe place to live.

hemloc_io 4y ago
I agree that housing shouldn't be a speculative investment, but cutting demand for building housing will decrease the amount of housing. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11119259/Hundreds-queue-one-rental-property-Dublin-Irish-capitals-housing-shortage-crisis.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11119259/Hundreds-q...
- tejohnso 4y ago
  From your linked article: " The unprecedented number of refugees arriving in Ireland has put pressure on the country's housing crisis, despite generous offers to host Ukrainian families. " I'm not sure how that results in cutting demand for building housing. The article is basically saying there's a crisis with few reasons offered. How / why / what would be cutting demand for building housing? Demand is the last thing I'd be worried about. People need a place to live, and they need the housing to live in, so there's always going to be demand for building it.
giaour 4y ago
> The problem is when housing is allowed to become a speculative investment I don’t think the distinction you’re drawing makes sense; there are plenty of ways to speculate in an otherwise healthy housing market (e.g. move to a gentrifying neighborhood in the hopes of moving again in a few years when your property is worth more). It seems like the common theme for the ills you identify is housing being un- or under-utilized while the owner is expecting or reaping the rewards of capital appreciation. More straightforward policy responses to that could include imposing a surtax on unoccupied property or taxing imputed rent regardless of occupancy.
- tejohnso 4y ago
  > move to a gentrifying neighborhood in the hopes of moving again in a few years when your property is worth more I didn't leave it just as speculation being the problem. You ignored the second part where I said "and the investment activity on housing begins to seriously threaten the actual housing activity". The speculative investment features intensify the use of homes for purposes other than housing. In your example, the purchaser is using it for both speculation and housing. Not so bad. But someone who owns a home, then leverages the equity to buy another that they don't intend to live in but rent out, then does that again 2 or 3 times, now we have a problem where this person is just massively leveraging and speculating, supported by the government and the banks, "the system" if you will. And then higher rents are in the best interest of these more affluent people. Rather, "the system" could disincentivize this kind of activity. > ills you identify is housing being un- or under-utilized...imposing a surtax on unoccupied property Not really something I was talking about, no...but that problem would be addressed by the first two suggestions I offered. Of course if for some reason it was still a problem, or you didn't want to be as heavy handed, you could go ahead and impose a surtax like you said.
dzhiurgis 4y ago
Forbid buying existing stock for rental/speculation. Only build new if you are leveraged to the brim. Build social housing and maintain it at a level that far exceed market price.

hemloc_io 4y ago

I agree that housing shouldn't be a speculative investment, but cutting demand for building housing will decrease the amount of housing. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11119259/Hundreds-queue-one-rental-property-Dublin-Irish-capitals-housing-shortage-crisis.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11119259/Hundreds-q...

tejohnso 4y ago
From your linked article: " The unprecedented number of refugees arriving in Ireland has put pressure on the country's housing crisis, despite generous offers to host Ukrainian families. " I'm not sure how that results in cutting demand for building housing. The article is basically saying there's a crisis with few reasons offered. How / why / what would be cutting demand for building housing? Demand is the last thing I'd be worried about. People need a place to live, and they need the housing to live in, so there's always going to be demand for building it.

giaour 4y ago

> The problem is when housing is allowed to become a speculative investment I don’t think the distinction you’re drawing makes sense; there are plenty of ways to speculate in an otherwise healthy housing market (e.g. move to a gentrifying neighborhood in the hopes of moving again in a few years when your property is worth more). It seems like the common theme for the ills you identify is housing being un- or under-utilized while the owner is expecting or reaping the rewards of capital appreciation. More straightforward policy responses to that could include imposing a surtax on unoccupied property or taxing imputed rent regardless of occupancy.

tejohnso 4y ago
> move to a gentrifying neighborhood in the hopes of moving again in a few years when your property is worth more I didn't leave it just as speculation being the problem. You ignored the second part where I said "and the investment activity on housing begins to seriously threaten the actual housing activity". The speculative investment features intensify the use of homes for purposes other than housing. In your example, the purchaser is using it for both speculation and housing. Not so bad. But someone who owns a home, then leverages the equity to buy another that they don't intend to live in but rent out, then does that again 2 or 3 times, now we have a problem where this person is just massively leveraging and speculating, supported by the government and the banks, "the system" if you will. And then higher rents are in the best interest of these more affluent people. Rather, "the system" could disincentivize this kind of activity. > ills you identify is housing being un- or under-utilized...imposing a surtax on unoccupied property Not really something I was talking about, no...but that problem would be addressed by the first two suggestions I offered. Of course if for some reason it was still a problem, or you didn't want to be as heavy handed, you could go ahead and impose a surtax like you said.

dzhiurgis 4y ago

Forbid buying existing stock for rental/speculation. Only build new if you are leveraged to the brim. Build social housing and maintain it at a level that far exceed market price.