6 ms·

I totally agree here. It only becomes noticeable when you don't drink, but when you do, it's painfully obvious the bias inherent in people around alcohol consu

by qudat 4y ago

I totally agree here. It only becomes noticeable when you don't drink, but when you do, it's painfully obvious the bias inherent in people around alcohol consumption. I have no issue with people drinking around me and will happily go to a bar and order a virgin mixed drink, but when major team-building activities revolve around drug consumption, it starts to become a bigger issue. Not to mention the fact that alcohol lowers inhibitions and makes people do really stupid things -- like make inappropriate jokes or much worse.

nickff 4y ago
The lowered inhibitions are a significant part of the appeal of alcohol for fostering closer relationships. There are alternative team-building approaches, but each one will alienate one group or another; for example, a sport will have a negative impact on those with mobility or co-ordination issues.
- em-bee 4y ago
  depending on alcohol for team building sounds like the worst idea ever. i don't want to be friends with people if their ability to develop friendship depends on alcohol. actually, i find it deceptive. i want to be friends with the real person. not the drunk person. it's dishonest. it's telling me that this person doesn't actually like me, and it's only the alcohol that makes them friendly. for an introvert who already has difficulty trusting people and making friends, this makes it worse, because it's a friendship that can't be trusted. as for alternatives for team building. there are plenty of activities that are welcoming. board games for example. popular in europe. good for introverts too because you can focus on the game and you are not forced participate in random discussion topics that you can't contribute to. among tech people a fun-hackathon. otherwise food always works. picnic or bbq was always popular when it happened at tech conferences.
  - nickff 4y ago
    Every alternative for team-building is a trade-off; TANSTAAFL. "Welcoming" is arbitrary; board games disadvantage people without 20/20 vision, and for people who find them boring, or dislike games based on chance. Food doesn't always work, picnics and BBQs are fraught with issues. I can cite problems with every single example you can come up with. "depending on alcohol for team building sounds like the worst idea ever." I assume that this was intended as hyperbole, but your argument would be much more persuasive if you fairly described the idea you're opposed to, along with its benefits, then describe why your solution, while having its own issues, is superior. Capitalization wouldn't hurt either.
    - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
      I didn't see any issues cited with food, just denial. What's wrong with food, that beer isn't the same or worse? Boring, disliked - that's beer for a great many of us.
      - nickff 4y ago
        Sure, I agree that a lot of people dislike beer, carbonated beverages have a noticeable and negative impact on me. Food presents allergy (milk, nuts, and other allergens), religious proscription (beef/pork), a variety of health (organic) and morality (veganism) issues, in addition to everyone having differing tastes. Food is really quite similar to beer in many ways, though the allergy issues are worse for some of us, and provides opportunity for embarrassment too (stained shirts and the like). I'm not saying that beer is the best tool for team-building, I'm just saying it has benefits, and just like every other alternative, trade-offs.
  - hello_marmalade 4y ago
    What is it with people who don't drink being particularly disparaging about people who do and how and why they use it? "depending on alcohol for team building sounds like the worst idea ever. i don't want to be friends with people if their ability to develop friendship depends on alcohol. actually, i find it deceptive. i want to be friends with the real person. not the drunk person. it's dishonest. it's telling me that this person doesn't actually like me, and it's only the alcohol that makes them friendly. for an introvert who already has difficulty trusting people and making friends, this makes it worse, because it's a friendship that can't be trusted." People aren't "depending" on alcohol, they're using it. Getting wasted is not a requirement of drinking alcohol. Alcohol reduces inhibitions. In small amounts it's enough to make a person feel less like they're going to sound stupid if they try to talk to new people. It's not deceptive any more than not opening up to others because you're anxious is "deceptive". You are not better than other people because you don't drink.
    - em-bee 4y ago
      i don't have a problem with my friends who drink (or anyone else) (as long as they don't get drunk, but that never happened when i was around so i have no practical experience with that). i have a problem if someone claims that they can't talk to me or they can't enjoy our time together unless they had a drink. the possible reasons why you can't talk to me makes me uncomfortable. Alcohol reduces inhibitions. In small amounts it's enough to make a person feel less like they're going to sound stupid if they try to talk to new people. yes, and that seriously bothers me. do you think that i don't feel uncomfortable talking to new people? this creates an imbalance. now you are comfortable because you had a drink, and i am still not because i won't or can't. that doesn't work. now you are no longer able to sense my discomfort because you don't sense your own. if we are both equally uncomfortable we could find a way to deal with that. instead i have to face your uninhibited self and feel like i want to run away. some people are naturally less inhibited. that can be difficult, but if they are perceptive and considerate it can work out. i fear that alcohol also makes you less perceptive, so that is unlikely to work.
dkonofalski 4y ago
>when major team-building activities revolve around drug consumption Drinking something/taking a drug at an event doesn't make the entire event revolve around that. Just because an event takes place at a brewery doesn't mean that non-brewery-related discussion is not allowed. The same can be said about literally any personal preference you have.
mechanical_bear 4y ago
“Drug consumption” that seems a bit hyperbolic. Do you talk about the coffee station at work in similar fashion? Do you talk about how the work place provides you with stimulant drugs in order to boost your productivity?
- variant 4y ago
  Yes, definitely! Caveat - I have no issue with someone drinking alcohol, coffee or whatever, but caffeine certainly has many drug-like addictive aspects to it. My addiction is vending machine candy. I might put it on par with coffee. :)
- tsol 4y ago
  More people die yearly from Alcohol than from all illicit drugs combined. It's addictive on par with other highly addictive drugs. It's not the same as caffeine. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/drug-use https://ourworldindata.org/drug-use

by qudat 4y ago

nickff 4y ago

The lowered inhibitions are a significant part of the appeal of alcohol for fostering closer relationships. There are alternative team-building approaches, but each one will alienate one group or another; for example, a sport will have a negative impact on those with mobility or co-ordination issues.

em-bee 4y ago
depending on alcohol for team building sounds like the worst idea ever. i don't want to be friends with people if their ability to develop friendship depends on alcohol. actually, i find it deceptive. i want to be friends with the real person. not the drunk person. it's dishonest. it's telling me that this person doesn't actually like me, and it's only the alcohol that makes them friendly. for an introvert who already has difficulty trusting people and making friends, this makes it worse, because it's a friendship that can't be trusted. as for alternatives for team building. there are plenty of activities that are welcoming. board games for example. popular in europe. good for introverts too because you can focus on the game and you are not forced participate in random discussion topics that you can't contribute to. among tech people a fun-hackathon. otherwise food always works. picnic or bbq was always popular when it happened at tech conferences.
- nickff 4y ago
  Every alternative for team-building is a trade-off; TANSTAAFL. "Welcoming" is arbitrary; board games disadvantage people without 20/20 vision, and for people who find them boring, or dislike games based on chance. Food doesn't always work, picnics and BBQs are fraught with issues. I can cite problems with every single example you can come up with. "depending on alcohol for team building sounds like the worst idea ever." I assume that this was intended as hyperbole, but your argument would be much more persuasive if you fairly described the idea you're opposed to, along with its benefits, then describe why your solution, while having its own issues, is superior. Capitalization wouldn't hurt either.
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    I didn't see any issues cited with food, just denial. What's wrong with food, that beer isn't the same or worse? Boring, disliked - that's beer for a great many of us.
    - nickff 4y ago
      Sure, I agree that a lot of people dislike beer, carbonated beverages have a noticeable and negative impact on me. Food presents allergy (milk, nuts, and other allergens), religious proscription (beef/pork), a variety of health (organic) and morality (veganism) issues, in addition to everyone having differing tastes. Food is really quite similar to beer in many ways, though the allergy issues are worse for some of us, and provides opportunity for embarrassment too (stained shirts and the like). I'm not saying that beer is the best tool for team-building, I'm just saying it has benefits, and just like every other alternative, trade-offs.
- hello_marmalade 4y ago
  What is it with people who don't drink being particularly disparaging about people who do and how and why they use it? "depending on alcohol for team building sounds like the worst idea ever. i don't want to be friends with people if their ability to develop friendship depends on alcohol. actually, i find it deceptive. i want to be friends with the real person. not the drunk person. it's dishonest. it's telling me that this person doesn't actually like me, and it's only the alcohol that makes them friendly. for an introvert who already has difficulty trusting people and making friends, this makes it worse, because it's a friendship that can't be trusted." People aren't "depending" on alcohol, they're using it. Getting wasted is not a requirement of drinking alcohol. Alcohol reduces inhibitions. In small amounts it's enough to make a person feel less like they're going to sound stupid if they try to talk to new people. It's not deceptive any more than not opening up to others because you're anxious is "deceptive". You are not better than other people because you don't drink.
  - em-bee 4y ago
    i don't have a problem with my friends who drink (or anyone else) (as long as they don't get drunk, but that never happened when i was around so i have no practical experience with that). i have a problem if someone claims that they can't talk to me or they can't enjoy our time together unless they had a drink. the possible reasons why you can't talk to me makes me uncomfortable. Alcohol reduces inhibitions. In small amounts it's enough to make a person feel less like they're going to sound stupid if they try to talk to new people. yes, and that seriously bothers me. do you think that i don't feel uncomfortable talking to new people? this creates an imbalance. now you are comfortable because you had a drink, and i am still not because i won't or can't. that doesn't work. now you are no longer able to sense my discomfort because you don't sense your own. if we are both equally uncomfortable we could find a way to deal with that. instead i have to face your uninhibited self and feel like i want to run away. some people are naturally less inhibited. that can be difficult, but if they are perceptive and considerate it can work out. i fear that alcohol also makes you less perceptive, so that is unlikely to work.

dkonofalski 4y ago

>when major team-building activities revolve around drug consumption Drinking something/taking a drug at an event doesn't make the entire event revolve around that. Just because an event takes place at a brewery doesn't mean that non-brewery-related discussion is not allowed. The same can be said about literally any personal preference you have.

mechanical_bear 4y ago

“Drug consumption” that seems a bit hyperbolic. Do you talk about the coffee station at work in similar fashion? Do you talk about how the work place provides you with stimulant drugs in order to boost your productivity?

variant 4y ago
Yes, definitely! Caveat - I have no issue with someone drinking alcohol, coffee or whatever, but caffeine certainly has many drug-like addictive aspects to it. My addiction is vending machine candy. I might put it on par with coffee. :)
tsol 4y ago
More people die yearly from Alcohol than from all illicit drugs combined. It's addictive on par with other highly addictive drugs. It's not the same as caffeine. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/drug-use https://ourworldindata.org/drug-use