4 ms·

Free market. People forget free market is not allways cheaper.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago
Except it's not a free market, building is regulated. You can't build whatever you want wherever you want in places like SF.
- SllX 4y ago
  Not even just SF. Anywhere in California.
nayuki 4y ago
> Free market. People forget free market is not allways cheaper. It's not a free market. Look at how hard it is to get land and approvals to build new housing. If we had a truly free market in housing, we wouldn't have these problems. High prices would incentivize more construction which would bring down prices.
retrac 4y ago
It's not a free market, though. It's not even a well-regulated market. It's a total mess of a market. This is a land zoning map of Toronto [1], one of the more pathological examples for a North American city. Toronto is a large and dense city with a housing shortage. And yet everything in red? It's only legal to construct a detached single family-home on that land. In something at least vaguely resembling a free market, detached homeowners such as me would have to compete with other land use that generates much more utility, and thus income from rents, on the same land area, with something like a high-rise. But I am insulated from that, by laws that effectively entrench the upper middle class's preferred land-use pattern of detached suburban housing. Zoning bylaws that prohibit constructing anything else effectively subsidize the suburban lifestyle. [1] http://www.datalabto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/toronto-01.png http://www.datalabto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/toronto-0...
- monkeywork 4y ago
  Yet so many people in Toronto choose to complain about: * Foreign ownership * Greedy landlords * People who own more than one house * AirBNB * etc etc When the solution is much like you just said, it's a policy decision that is limiting the housing supply (well that plus record population growth in the GTA). https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/about/economics/economics-publications/post.other-publications.housing.housing-note.housing-note--january-12-2022-.html https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/about/economics/economics-p... If people spent half the effort on holding their provincial and muni reps accountable for this rather than belly-aching online about all the other items I listed above (which are really symptoms not causes) maybe something will change.
  - 10hr 4y ago
    I think all the toronto complaints are fair
aaronbrethorst 4y ago
What free market? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning
avgDev 4y ago
The "FREE MARKET" doesn't exist.
djohnston 4y ago
How do you see it as a free market when there are artificial limits placed on the supply side?
jollyllama 4y ago
It's not a free market if the government can prevent tenants from paying via rent/eviction freezes.
rychco 4y ago
I live in a city that's zoned for %80~ single-family homes. In what way is that a free market?

Except it's not a free market, building is regulated. You can't build whatever you want wherever you want in places like SF.

SllX 4y ago
Not even just SF. Anywhere in California.

nayuki 4y ago

> Free market. People forget free market is not allways cheaper. It's not a free market. Look at how hard it is to get land and approvals to build new housing. If we had a truly free market in housing, we wouldn't have these problems. High prices would incentivize more construction which would bring down prices.

retrac 4y ago

It's not a free market, though. It's not even a well-regulated market. It's a total mess of a market. This is a land zoning map of Toronto [1], one of the more pathological examples for a North American city. Toronto is a large and dense city with a housing shortage. And yet everything in red? It's only legal to construct a detached single family-home on that land. In something at least vaguely resembling a free market, detached homeowners such as me would have to compete with other land use that generates much more utility, and thus income from rents, on the same land area, with something like a high-rise. But I am insulated from that, by laws that effectively entrench the upper middle class's preferred land-use pattern of detached suburban housing. Zoning bylaws that prohibit constructing anything else effectively subsidize the suburban lifestyle. [1] http://www.datalabto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/toronto-01.png http://www.datalabto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/toronto-0...

monkeywork 4y ago
Yet so many people in Toronto choose to complain about: * Foreign ownership * Greedy landlords * People who own more than one house * AirBNB * etc etc When the solution is much like you just said, it's a policy decision that is limiting the housing supply (well that plus record population growth in the GTA). https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/about/economics/economics-publications/post.other-publications.housing.housing-note.housing-note--january-12-2022-.html https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/about/economics/economics-p... If people spent half the effort on holding their provincial and muni reps accountable for this rather than belly-aching online about all the other items I listed above (which are really symptoms not causes) maybe something will change.
- 10hr 4y ago
  I think all the toronto complaints are fair

aaronbrethorst 4y ago

What free market? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning

avgDev 4y ago

The "FREE MARKET" doesn't exist.

djohnston 4y ago

How do you see it as a free market when there are artificial limits placed on the supply side?

jollyllama 4y ago

It's not a free market if the government can prevent tenants from paying via rent/eviction freezes.

rychco 4y ago

I live in a city that's zoned for %80~ single-family homes. In what way is that a free market?