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> And we thought things were bad in the US. That inflation is mostly driven by energy costs, which are a direct result of European policy failures on nuclear a

> And we thought things were bad in the US. That inflation is mostly driven by energy costs, which are a direct result of European policy failures on nuclear and fossil fuels. The US is mostly a net neutral producer/consumer of fossil fuels and energy, which is why it's insulated from the impacts of Russia cutting off gas.

colechristensen 4y ago
Yup. A big thing in past decades was energy independence. The US actually achieved it but it didn't get the attention that griping about not having it got.
- wffurr 4y ago
  I mean sort of. If fuel prices are still at the whim of global markets, does it matter if the country is a net importer or not? Electrification with domestic electricity supply seems like it would provide much greater security. Though there's still the global markets for all the electronics and materials and such for renewable generation.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    >If fuel prices are still at the whim of global markets, does it matter if the country is a net importer or not? But they are not completely at the whim. With a nontrivial lag time, as prices raise, local (especially North America as a whole) production will go up and NA will become a significant net exporter. The shale and tar sands production is considerably more expensive than other production methods and requires high prices (and predictions of long term high prices) to operate successfully. We are coupled, but not entirely dependent. The local price will be progressively lower compared to global price as global price rises. Being able to overproduce our requirements enables this. If high prices significantly (for some sufficiently high level of significance) threatened our local economy or supply actually limited people's ability to buy at any price, controls can and would be enacted to decouple the local price and economy from the global market.
mikeiz404 4y ago
From an energy security standpoint being net neutral or better is good but is the US insulated from fossil fuel prices? From a market perspective I would have thought a decrease in supply (say sanctions on Russian oil) would up the price of oil. This would effect domestic oil prices as well since either the domestic producers also participate globally or other sources of oil available domestically are also available globally (higher global price would decrease domestic supply and thus increase domestic price). If domestic policies are put in place which limit access to the global market then that would change things.
- ceeplusplus 4y ago
  > is the US insulated from fossil fuel prices? To a large degree, yes [1]. The US is affected by oil prices globally, but if OPEC decides to cut off the US it wouldn't have the same effect that Russia is having on the EU right now. > also participate globally In crises, the US has the option to restrict exports. The EU does not have that option because it is not a net producer of fossil fuels. [1] https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/natural-gas-prices-in-europe-asia-and-the-united-states-jan-2020-february-2022 https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/natural-gas-p...
  - mikeiz404 4y ago
    Wow, that chart is quite compelling.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  > From an energy security standpoint being net neutral or better is good but is the US insulated from fossil fuel prices? The US as an economy is mostly not effected by fuel prices anymore. But the average US consumer is - that's probably the important part.
  - UncleOxidant 4y ago
    But the average US consumer is a big part of the economy - if they're effected, then how is the US economy not effected?
aydnina 4y ago

colechristensen 4y ago

Yup. A big thing in past decades was energy independence. The US actually achieved it but it didn't get the attention that griping about not having it got.

wffurr 4y ago
I mean sort of. If fuel prices are still at the whim of global markets, does it matter if the country is a net importer or not? Electrification with domestic electricity supply seems like it would provide much greater security. Though there's still the global markets for all the electronics and materials and such for renewable generation.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  >If fuel prices are still at the whim of global markets, does it matter if the country is a net importer or not? But they are not completely at the whim. With a nontrivial lag time, as prices raise, local (especially North America as a whole) production will go up and NA will become a significant net exporter. The shale and tar sands production is considerably more expensive than other production methods and requires high prices (and predictions of long term high prices) to operate successfully. We are coupled, but not entirely dependent. The local price will be progressively lower compared to global price as global price rises. Being able to overproduce our requirements enables this. If high prices significantly (for some sufficiently high level of significance) threatened our local economy or supply actually limited people's ability to buy at any price, controls can and would be enacted to decouple the local price and economy from the global market.

mikeiz404 4y ago

From an energy security standpoint being net neutral or better is good but is the US insulated from fossil fuel prices? From a market perspective I would have thought a decrease in supply (say sanctions on Russian oil) would up the price of oil. This would effect domestic oil prices as well since either the domestic producers also participate globally or other sources of oil available domestically are also available globally (higher global price would decrease domestic supply and thus increase domestic price). If domestic policies are put in place which limit access to the global market then that would change things.

ceeplusplus 4y ago
> is the US insulated from fossil fuel prices? To a large degree, yes [1]. The US is affected by oil prices globally, but if OPEC decides to cut off the US it wouldn't have the same effect that Russia is having on the EU right now. > also participate globally In crises, the US has the option to restrict exports. The EU does not have that option because it is not a net producer of fossil fuels. [1] https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/natural-gas-prices-in-europe-asia-and-the-united-states-jan-2020-february-2022 https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/natural-gas-p...
- mikeiz404 4y ago
  Wow, that chart is quite compelling.
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
> From an energy security standpoint being net neutral or better is good but is the US insulated from fossil fuel prices? The US as an economy is mostly not effected by fuel prices anymore. But the average US consumer is - that's probably the important part.
- UncleOxidant 4y ago
  But the average US consumer is a big part of the economy - if they're effected, then how is the US economy not effected?

aydnina 4y ago