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I've dove into PD vs Max quite a bit the last few months, and I've found PD to be a bit... archaic in it's design and how it looks. Max looks much nicer, but t

I've dove into PD vs Max quite a bit the last few months, and I've found PD to be a bit... archaic in it's design and how it looks. Max looks much nicer, but they both have the same problem: Lack of community. I expected to be able to treat PureData or Max like any other programming language: find a book, watch some tutorials, and get up to speed. Additionally, there isn't really a central "repo" for PureData. I want to search through patches that people have shared for learning and re-use purposes. However, I am unable to find such a thing.

monetus 4y ago
The gui really needs its own theming if you use it a lot, and the header file that is supposed to be the stable api is... Limited. Thankfully the unstable stuff hasn't been changed in years so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. https://patchstorage.com/ https://patchstorage.com/ has been making a pretty heroic effort at being a searchable hub for, pure data in the beginning, but now many. The forum is the most active for posting patches, but is terrible at indexing. https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/category/2/patch https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/category/2/patch Puredata.info was the historic one right? Even though I remember using sourceforge a lot. Some interesting things there, but I don't think people post patches or even plugins on the main site much anymore. On the sourceforge note, plenty in GitHub too. Sometimes, /r/puredata
frou_dh 4y ago
> I've found PD to be a bit... archaic in it's design and how it looks. Pd's creator was originally a mathematician and IIRC he said that the look he was going for is that you start off with a clean sheet of white paper and draw simple figures and lines on it
xhevahir 4y ago
There's a project called Purr Data that has an HTML5 user interface and lots of extra libraries: https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data
anigbrowl 4y ago
There's a community, it's just very conservative. The problem (especially with PD) is that the community is hostile to anyone who says 'hey, this is great, but hard to use.' It was true >20 years ago when I first became acquainted with PD and even more so now. Any criticism or unwelcome suggestions are treated as an insult to Miller Puckette and the proponent is attacked, ignored, or advised to implement it themselves (ie to go away and not come back). PD's interface is stuck in the 1980s, with the monochrome graphics, lack of any support functionality (contextual menus or rearrangement/tidying functions, snapping) and idiosyncratic terminology (eg PD refers to module connectors as 'patch cords' just like on an analog modular synthesizer or mixer, but what synth people commonly call a pulse or a trigger is a 'bang' in PD). And its users mostly like it that way, the same way some people fetishize 8 bit videogames. There have been more accessible versions of the same idea for a long time (ie the mid-90s), from Clavia's Nord Modular in hardware and Native Instrument's software synth Reaktor in the commercial space to solo projects like Ross Bencina's Audiomulch. The latter was very obviously inspired by PD but iterated on every aspect of the design, making it far more accessible and flexible. PD's defenders (kinda like CSound's) emphasize how open-ended it is and that you can do anything, render any concept etc. In the audio synthesis world it's well understood that the more a manufacturer emphasizes unlimited creativity, massive patch storage, infinite potential etc., the less good the UI and the more basic the default quality of the sound engine. You can make it do anything, but unless you already have a very specific goals you will spend most of the time reinventing wheels in parameter space. If you want a mature technology stack for implementing an audio subsystem (eg in a game), it might be a very good choice. If you just want a flexible tool to make electronic music, it's best avoided.
- polyterative 4y ago
  > You can make it do anything, but unless you already have a very specific goals you will spend most of the time reinventing wheels in parameter space. If you want a mature technology stack for implementing an audio subsystem (eg in a game), it might be a very good choice. If you just want a flexible tool to make electronic music, it's best avoided. I agree so much. It's a cool tool but the curve to learn it is often not worth it
- usrusr 4y ago

monetus 4y ago

The gui really needs its own theming if you use it a lot, and the header file that is supposed to be the stable api is... Limited. Thankfully the unstable stuff hasn't been changed in years so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. https://patchstorage.com/ https://patchstorage.com/ has been making a pretty heroic effort at being a searchable hub for, pure data in the beginning, but now many. The forum is the most active for posting patches, but is terrible at indexing. https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/category/2/patch https://forum.pdpatchrepo.info/category/2/patch Puredata.info was the historic one right? Even though I remember using sourceforge a lot. Some interesting things there, but I don't think people post patches or even plugins on the main site much anymore. On the sourceforge note, plenty in GitHub too. Sometimes, /r/puredata

frou_dh 4y ago

> I've found PD to be a bit... archaic in it's design and how it looks. Pd's creator was originally a mathematician and IIRC he said that the look he was going for is that you start off with a clean sheet of white paper and draw simple figures and lines on it

xhevahir 4y ago

There's a project called Purr Data that has an HTML5 user interface and lots of extra libraries: https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data

anigbrowl 4y ago

There's a community, it's just very conservative. The problem (especially with PD) is that the community is hostile to anyone who says 'hey, this is great, but hard to use.' It was true >20 years ago when I first became acquainted with PD and even more so now. Any criticism or unwelcome suggestions are treated as an insult to Miller Puckette and the proponent is attacked, ignored, or advised to implement it themselves (ie to go away and not come back). PD's interface is stuck in the 1980s, with the monochrome graphics, lack of any support functionality (contextual menus or rearrangement/tidying functions, snapping) and idiosyncratic terminology (eg PD refers to module connectors as 'patch cords' just like on an analog modular synthesizer or mixer, but what synth people commonly call a pulse or a trigger is a 'bang' in PD). And its users mostly like it that way, the same way some people fetishize 8 bit videogames. There have been more accessible versions of the same idea for a long time (ie the mid-90s), from Clavia's Nord Modular in hardware and Native Instrument's software synth Reaktor in the commercial space to solo projects like Ross Bencina's Audiomulch. The latter was very obviously inspired by PD but iterated on every aspect of the design, making it far more accessible and flexible. PD's defenders (kinda like CSound's) emphasize how open-ended it is and that you can do anything, render any concept etc. In the audio synthesis world it's well understood that the more a manufacturer emphasizes unlimited creativity, massive patch storage, infinite potential etc., the less good the UI and the more basic the default quality of the sound engine. You can make it do anything, but unless you already have a very specific goals you will spend most of the time reinventing wheels in parameter space. If you want a mature technology stack for implementing an audio subsystem (eg in a game), it might be a very good choice. If you just want a flexible tool to make electronic music, it's best avoided.

polyterative 4y ago
> You can make it do anything, but unless you already have a very specific goals you will spend most of the time reinventing wheels in parameter space. If you want a mature technology stack for implementing an audio subsystem (eg in a game), it might be a very good choice. If you just want a flexible tool to make electronic music, it's best avoided. I agree so much. It's a cool tool but the curve to learn it is often not worth it
usrusr 4y ago