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This doesn't match GitHub's top languages [1]: 1. JavaScript 2. Python 3. Java 4. TypeScript 5. C# 6. PHP [1] https://octoverse.github.com/#geographical-

by mythz 4y ago

This doesn't match GitHub's top languages [1]: 1. JavaScript 2. Python 3. Java 4. TypeScript 5. C# 6. PHP [1] https://octoverse.github.com/#geographical-distribution-of-active-users#top-languages-over-the-years https://octoverse.github.com/#geographical-distribution-of-a...

davidatbu 4y ago
Worth noting that this order is strikingly similar to the one from the StackOverflow developer survey: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#technology-most-popular-technologies https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#technology-most-popula...
- peteey 4y ago
  I'm more likely to visit chip manufacture's forum with problems. TI and Microchip have paid experts who will answer my question. C itself is simple compared to other languages. The last time I visited Stack overflow was for a niche IDE setting.
ncmncm 4y ago
That just demonstrates how GitHub is out of touch with the real world of programming. At least you didn't compare it to TIOBE.
- arinlen 4y ago
  > That just demonstrates how GitHub is out of touch with the real world of programming. Do you actually have any objective and statistically meaningful source of data that supports your personal assertion of what the real world is supposed to be? Wherever I look, I see Java in the server and smartphones, C# in desktop and nowadays servers, and C++ in desktop and tooling and performance components. For each JavaScript SPA project I've worked with, there were at least 2 Java or C# server projects. Where exactly do you base your personal assertion?
chaos_emergent 4y ago
This is heavily biased toward developers who store code on GitHub. A lot of larger companies and institutions either run GitHub on-prem or use some other versioning solution. I think that those companies would also be more likely to use older and more strictly typed languages than Python/JS/TS, and have larger code bases in those languages because they are larger and older organizations.
- arinlen 4y ago
  > This is heavily biased toward developers who store code on GitHub. Apparently GitHub hosts over 50 million projects. SourceForge in comparison seems to have 500k projects. GitLab seems to outright hide the number of projects they host. I'm not sure that the number of companies hosting their projects on any other service would have a meaningful impact on results. If you have a better source, feel free to point it out.
  - hiccuphippo 4y ago
    Github has a lot of forks of the same project or incomplete projects. I wonder if they filter those out. For a different source, although not representative of all code, the repositories for a Linux distro like Debian or Arch would give interesting data.
    - arinlen 4y ago
      > For a different source, although not representative of all code, the repositories for a Linux distro like Debian or Arch would give interesting data. Source code from Linux distro repos should be different but far from representative or meaningful, specially as it leans heavily towards legacy C libraries and tooling. I hardly see how that could be a meaningful rejection of GitHub as a statistically significant sample of what real world projects are actively being developed by real world developers.
msbarnett 4y ago
The jobs graph also doesn't match DevJobsScanner's results: https://www.devjobsscanner.com/blog/top-8-most-demanded-languages-in-2022/ https://www.devjobsscanner.com/blog/top-8-most-demanded-lang... Where is IEEE finding all these jobs hiring for "shell"?
- WhyIsItGlowing 4y ago
  It's everywhere in job listings, just largely as a nice-to-have on jobs that are primarily in something else but need the odd script putting together here and there.
qsort 4y ago
I mean, they are kind of the same in a different order. My takeaway is this: - Web technologies still dominate. Never bet against the web. - Java and C# are still the backbone of enterprise software. - People really like Python, much more than the professional developer community does. - C and C++ are not going anywhere. - The methodology is mostly garbage.
- poulsbohemian 4y ago
  > People really like Python, much more than the professional developer community does. Just to be clear, I'm not intending to pick a fight in asking this - who do we believe is using python, if not the professional developer community? I think there are plenty of people in academia and research who are not principally programmers using it, but job postings et. al. would certainly seem to express that a whole lot of professional programmers are using it. Though perhaps less use at FAANG? - maybe that's the defining criteria here?
  - qsort 4y ago
    Don't intend to pick a fight either, but Python seems to be more liked by people who aren't primarily developers (researchers and academics, but also other technical figures like sysadmins, data scientists, analysts, etc.) probably because Python's advantages are very obvious and Python's downsides only start to become apparent to more experienced users. An alternative reason could be that it's starting to get traction as a "CS 101 language", where those classes would have used Java before (or C before that); more people have heard of Python than they have heard of, say Go or Rust. Obviously both professional developers and "not primarily developers" generally like and use Python. I meant this as a comparison rather than "developers don't use Python". FAANGs, I really don't know, but I would find it odd if they didn't use Python to at least some extent.
AdamH12113 4y ago
This list is from the IEEE Spectrum, an electrical and electronics engineering trade journal. It's probably weighted heavily towards embedded programming.
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  Only two of the top six languages they list (C and C++) are associated with embedded programming. They list their sources, it goes far beyond just IEEE's own job listings and publications. And even then, a casual perusal of IEEE's publications on the topics of computers and software will show they have a lot of non-embedded programming content. Check out the IEEE Computer Society, in particular, which has a lot of content in common with ACM's publications (in theme, at least).

by mythz 4y ago

davidatbu 4y ago

Worth noting that this order is strikingly similar to the one from the StackOverflow developer survey: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#technology-most-popular-technologies https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#technology-most-popula...

peteey 4y ago
I'm more likely to visit chip manufacture's forum with problems. TI and Microchip have paid experts who will answer my question. C itself is simple compared to other languages. The last time I visited Stack overflow was for a niche IDE setting.

ncmncm 4y ago

That just demonstrates how GitHub is out of touch with the real world of programming. At least you didn't compare it to TIOBE.

arinlen 4y ago
> That just demonstrates how GitHub is out of touch with the real world of programming. Do you actually have any objective and statistically meaningful source of data that supports your personal assertion of what the real world is supposed to be? Wherever I look, I see Java in the server and smartphones, C# in desktop and nowadays servers, and C++ in desktop and tooling and performance components. For each JavaScript SPA project I've worked with, there were at least 2 Java or C# server projects. Where exactly do you base your personal assertion?

chaos_emergent 4y ago

This is heavily biased toward developers who store code on GitHub. A lot of larger companies and institutions either run GitHub on-prem or use some other versioning solution. I think that those companies would also be more likely to use older and more strictly typed languages than Python/JS/TS, and have larger code bases in those languages because they are larger and older organizations.

arinlen 4y ago
> This is heavily biased toward developers who store code on GitHub. Apparently GitHub hosts over 50 million projects. SourceForge in comparison seems to have 500k projects. GitLab seems to outright hide the number of projects they host. I'm not sure that the number of companies hosting their projects on any other service would have a meaningful impact on results. If you have a better source, feel free to point it out.
- hiccuphippo 4y ago
  Github has a lot of forks of the same project or incomplete projects. I wonder if they filter those out. For a different source, although not representative of all code, the repositories for a Linux distro like Debian or Arch would give interesting data.
  - arinlen 4y ago
    > For a different source, although not representative of all code, the repositories for a Linux distro like Debian or Arch would give interesting data. Source code from Linux distro repos should be different but far from representative or meaningful, specially as it leans heavily towards legacy C libraries and tooling. I hardly see how that could be a meaningful rejection of GitHub as a statistically significant sample of what real world projects are actively being developed by real world developers.

msbarnett 4y ago

The jobs graph also doesn't match DevJobsScanner's results: https://www.devjobsscanner.com/blog/top-8-most-demanded-languages-in-2022/ https://www.devjobsscanner.com/blog/top-8-most-demanded-lang... Where is IEEE finding all these jobs hiring for "shell"?

WhyIsItGlowing 4y ago
It's everywhere in job listings, just largely as a nice-to-have on jobs that are primarily in something else but need the odd script putting together here and there.

qsort 4y ago

I mean, they are kind of the same in a different order. My takeaway is this: - Web technologies still dominate. Never bet against the web. - Java and C# are still the backbone of enterprise software. - People really like Python, much more than the professional developer community does. - C and C++ are not going anywhere. - The methodology is mostly garbage.

poulsbohemian 4y ago
> People really like Python, much more than the professional developer community does. Just to be clear, I'm not intending to pick a fight in asking this - who do we believe is using python, if not the professional developer community? I think there are plenty of people in academia and research who are not principally programmers using it, but job postings et. al. would certainly seem to express that a whole lot of professional programmers are using it. Though perhaps less use at FAANG? - maybe that's the defining criteria here?
- qsort 4y ago
  Don't intend to pick a fight either, but Python seems to be more liked by people who aren't primarily developers (researchers and academics, but also other technical figures like sysadmins, data scientists, analysts, etc.) probably because Python's advantages are very obvious and Python's downsides only start to become apparent to more experienced users. An alternative reason could be that it's starting to get traction as a "CS 101 language", where those classes would have used Java before (or C before that); more people have heard of Python than they have heard of, say Go or Rust. Obviously both professional developers and "not primarily developers" generally like and use Python. I meant this as a comparison rather than "developers don't use Python". FAANGs, I really don't know, but I would find it odd if they didn't use Python to at least some extent.

AdamH12113 4y ago

This list is from the IEEE Spectrum, an electrical and electronics engineering trade journal. It's probably weighted heavily towards embedded programming.

Jtsummers 4y ago
Only two of the top six languages they list (C and C++) are associated with embedded programming. They list their sources, it goes far beyond just IEEE's own job listings and publications. And even then, a casual perusal of IEEE's publications on the topics of computers and software will show they have a lot of non-embedded programming content. Check out the IEEE Computer Society, in particular, which has a lot of content in common with ACM's publications (in theme, at least).