5 ms·

India forced Twitter to put agent on payroll, whistleblower says

210 points by perihelions 4y ago

seydor 4y ago
- vsareto 4y ago
  The only people thinking that are ignorant of who Mudge is
  - justinzollars 4y ago
    who is Mudge?
    - matthews2 4y ago
      From an article linked in the OP (https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/twitters-former-security-head-alleges-company-misled-regulators-about-security-2022-08-23/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/twitters-former-securi...), mudge is the alias of Twitter's ex-head of security Peiter Zatko.
      - justinzollars 4y ago
        Ty
    - cronix 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peiter_Zatko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peiter_Zatko
      - justinzollars 4y ago
        Thanks
    - mrex 4y ago
      Mudge is to cybersecurity as Orson Welles is to film. That's not hyperbole.
      - justinzollars 4y ago
        Thanks
  - nr2x 4y ago
    It’s quite amusing to see people spouting off without a god damn clue. The dude ran cyber security research at DARPA, lol.
- purpleblue 4y ago
  It seems more likely that the CEO of Twitter is on India's payroll rather than Mudge being on Elon's payroll.
- infamouscow 4y ago
  Tesla and the Indian government aren't best friends[1], so I'm mystified how you can conclude Elon Musk is responsible for what Mudge alleges about the Indian government. [1]: https://www.reuters.com/technology/teslas-musk-says-working-through-challenges-with-india-government-2022-01-13/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/teslas-musk-says-working-...
- nova22033 4y ago
  Mudge began preparing these disclosures in early March 2022, well before Mr. Musk expressed any interest in acquiring Twitter, and has not communicated these disclosures to anyone with a financial interest in Twitter From Matt Levine's newsletter
aaron695 4y ago
throw93 4y ago
I think this is related to IT rules India enforced in 2021. More context here. https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/10/twitter-now-in-compliance-with-india-new-it-rules-government-says/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/10/twitter-now-in-compliance-... Indian govt was not happy with the criticism it received on twitter about it's handling of COVID and even forced twitter to delete some tweets. Even tweets asking for help during oxygen crisis were deleted. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56883483 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56883483 WhatsApp of all companies put up quite a fight against Indian Govt demand to monitor the messages, although I'm not sure what became of it. Source 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/aayushipratap/2021/06/15/whatsapps-fight-with-the-indian-government-over-its-data-privacy-rules-may-have-global-reverberations/?sh=7fb781be5a7a https://www.forbes.com/sites/aayushipratap/2021/06/15/whatsa... Source 2: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/25/technology/whatsapp-india-lawsuit.html#:~:text=The%20rules%2C%20which%20would%20require,privacy%2C%20the%20messaging%20service%20said.&text=As%20a%20subscriber%2C%20you%20have,articles%20to%20give%20each%20month https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/25/technology/whatsapp-india....
- secondcoming 4y ago
  Why would the Indian Govt need to place a spy in Twitter in order to find things it wants censored? It's more likely that this person was able to spy on Twitter users' communications, not only in India but all over the world (if we're to believe how bad Twitter's database security policies were)
  - nr2x 4y ago
    Gotta get those DMs.
  - butterNaN 4y ago
    When I was on social media, Twitter was pretty much the only mainstream social media which had a sizable anti-rightwing userbase. Could be bacause of that?
    - themitigating 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nr2x 4y ago
So the insider threat team was run out of the recruiting office?
- Proven 4y ago
tarakat 4y ago
Meanwhile Twitter seemingly voluntarily put a British psyops officer in charge of the Middle East [1]. And for all their hand-wringing about state-backed social media disinformation campaigns, no western mainstream media have reported on this - not Reuters, not the BBC, not the NY Times, not CNN, not Fox News, not the Guardian. [1] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/twitter-executive-also-part-time-officer-uk-army-psychological-warfare-unit https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/twitter-executive-also-pa...
- thunkshift1 4y ago
  Lol at the hypocrisy of ‘free and fair’ media.. hard to digest this but Trump was actually right about the media. If there was ever any doubt in anybody’s mind that social media tech companies are an extension of Americas gov and policy circles, this should put that to rest.
  - uoaei 4y ago
    Many more people are more right about the media. Trump's critiques are ham-fisted imitations of more substantial ones.
    - jaywalk 4y ago
      - uoaei 4y ago
        Is yours a helpful comment? Are you positively contributing to the conversation? There are many, many people who have well-developed media criticisms, Trump's are not helpful nor are they particularly accurate if you look closely.
- Alir3z4 4y ago
  Imagine if it was an IRGC officer in charge of America at Twitter.
- themitigating 4y ago
hammock 4y ago
Seems like India wasn't the only country attempting this: "The governments of India, Nigeria, [redacted] and Russia sought, with varying success, to force Twitter to hire local FTEs that could be used as leverage." https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2022/twitter-whistleblower-sec-spam/whistleblower_disclosure.pdf https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2022/t...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- umeshunni 4y ago
  hiring local FTEs is different from hiring an 'agent'
  - scottiebarnes 4y ago
    Even if the candidate is provided by the government?
    - solveit 4y ago
      There's a great deal of difference between "You must hire from this government-operated job training program" and "You must hire this person. No, really, this guy." In any case, this is irrelevant. The linked document says that Russia, Nigeria, India + one redacted government sought to force Twitter to hire local FTEs "that could be used as leverage", no mention of providing candidates or anything. It looks less like trying to embed agents in Twitter and more like wanting Twitter employees they could pressure, arrest, and punish without causing a diplomatic clusterfuck. India jailing an American citizen forces the US government to intervene, and said US citizen would've fled the country long before things got that tense anyway. A citizen of their own country, on the other hand, can be much more easily contained, and when push comes to shove, the US won't do much for a foreign national who only happens to work for Twitter.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
kornhole 4y ago
It is probably one of the most difficult things to prove given the secrecy of such arrangements, but I have to assume that in order for many of these services to operate in countries, governments require concessions be they data sharing or placement of their people in operations like this. The US is no exception. https://www.mintpressnews.com/twitter-hiring-alarming-number-spooks-secret-agents/281114/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/twitter-hiring-alarming-number...
anonymousiam 4y ago
There's no government it the world that doesn't do this. If you are a multi-national corporation, you deal with it.
- srean 4y ago
  That is quite a sweeping and bold statement that I would like to form my own opinion about. Do you have any links to reading material ? Just to be clear I am not disagreeing or agreeing with you yet.
  - exolymph 4y ago
    Snowden revelations: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-i...
    - themitigating 4y ago
      That's only one governments actions, the poster stated all governments.
      - exolymph 4y ago
        It's not just one gov't, it's Five Eyes. I guess if you're uncomfortable extrapolating from there, that's your business.
  - kornhole 4y ago
    I am also shocked at such allegation. Intelligence agencies are usually quite transparent about the deployment and identities of their agents. If someone can't prove it, there is no reason to think governments would do such a thing. They exist to protect us and uphold values of free speech. Seriously though, information gathering and manipulation are some of their main duties. Any intelligence agency would be negligent if it was not trying to infiltrate centralized social media companies.
pclmulqdq 4y ago
The Indian government is weirdly protectionist about technology companies operating inside its borders. I remember stories of people from trading firms having to carry servers they personally owned across the border in order to deploy them to trade stock, and also having to completely disclose trading algorithms to the Indian regulators.
commandlinefan 4y ago
I've always wondered why, exactly, a handful of companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google somehow dominate the internet in spite of a nearly nonexistent cost of entry into the internet and the fact that they, themselves, don't really do much - definitely not something somebody else couldn't easily do. This plays into my conspiracy theory thinking that they're so dominant because they've been propped up by entrenched government interests as long as they pay back the favors when the favors come due.
known 4y ago

210 points by perihelions 4y ago

seydor 4y ago

vsareto 4y ago
The only people thinking that are ignorant of who Mudge is
- justinzollars 4y ago
  who is Mudge?
  - matthews2 4y ago
    From an article linked in the OP (https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/twitters-former-security-head-alleges-company-misled-regulators-about-security-2022-08-23/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/twitters-former-securi...), mudge is the alias of Twitter's ex-head of security Peiter Zatko.
    - justinzollars 4y ago
      Ty
  - cronix 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peiter_Zatko https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peiter_Zatko
    - justinzollars 4y ago
      Thanks
  - mrex 4y ago
    Mudge is to cybersecurity as Orson Welles is to film. That's not hyperbole.
    - justinzollars 4y ago
      Thanks
- nr2x 4y ago
  It’s quite amusing to see people spouting off without a god damn clue. The dude ran cyber security research at DARPA, lol.
purpleblue 4y ago
It seems more likely that the CEO of Twitter is on India's payroll rather than Mudge being on Elon's payroll.
infamouscow 4y ago
Tesla and the Indian government aren't best friends[1], so I'm mystified how you can conclude Elon Musk is responsible for what Mudge alleges about the Indian government. [1]: https://www.reuters.com/technology/teslas-musk-says-working-through-challenges-with-india-government-2022-01-13/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/teslas-musk-says-working-...
nova22033 4y ago
Mudge began preparing these disclosures in early March 2022, well before Mr. Musk expressed any interest in acquiring Twitter, and has not communicated these disclosures to anyone with a financial interest in Twitter From Matt Levine's newsletter

aaron695 4y ago

throw93 4y ago

I think this is related to IT rules India enforced in 2021. More context here. https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/10/twitter-now-in-compliance-with-india-new-it-rules-government-says/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/10/twitter-now-in-compliance-... Indian govt was not happy with the criticism it received on twitter about it's handling of COVID and even forced twitter to delete some tweets. Even tweets asking for help during oxygen crisis were deleted. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56883483 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56883483 WhatsApp of all companies put up quite a fight against Indian Govt demand to monitor the messages, although I'm not sure what became of it. Source 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/aayushipratap/2021/06/15/whatsapps-fight-with-the-indian-government-over-its-data-privacy-rules-may-have-global-reverberations/?sh=7fb781be5a7a https://www.forbes.com/sites/aayushipratap/2021/06/15/whatsa... Source 2: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/25/technology/whatsapp-india-lawsuit.html#:~:text=The%20rules%2C%20which%20would%20require,privacy%2C%20the%20messaging%20service%20said.&text=As%20a%20subscriber%2C%20you%20have,articles%20to%20give%20each%20month https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/25/technology/whatsapp-india....

secondcoming 4y ago
Why would the Indian Govt need to place a spy in Twitter in order to find things it wants censored? It's more likely that this person was able to spy on Twitter users' communications, not only in India but all over the world (if we're to believe how bad Twitter's database security policies were)
- nr2x 4y ago
  Gotta get those DMs.
- butterNaN 4y ago
  When I was on social media, Twitter was pretty much the only mainstream social media which had a sizable anti-rightwing userbase. Could be bacause of that?
  - themitigating 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nr2x 4y ago

So the insider threat team was run out of the recruiting office?

Proven 4y ago

tarakat 4y ago

Meanwhile Twitter seemingly voluntarily put a British psyops officer in charge of the Middle East [1]. And for all their hand-wringing about state-backed social media disinformation campaigns, no western mainstream media have reported on this - not Reuters, not the BBC, not the NY Times, not CNN, not Fox News, not the Guardian. [1] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/twitter-executive-also-part-time-officer-uk-army-psychological-warfare-unit https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/twitter-executive-also-pa...

thunkshift1 4y ago
Lol at the hypocrisy of ‘free and fair’ media.. hard to digest this but Trump was actually right about the media. If there was ever any doubt in anybody’s mind that social media tech companies are an extension of Americas gov and policy circles, this should put that to rest.
- uoaei 4y ago
  Many more people are more right about the media. Trump's critiques are ham-fisted imitations of more substantial ones.
  - jaywalk 4y ago
    - uoaei 4y ago
      Is yours a helpful comment? Are you positively contributing to the conversation? There are many, many people who have well-developed media criticisms, Trump's are not helpful nor are they particularly accurate if you look closely.
Alir3z4 4y ago
Imagine if it was an IRGC officer in charge of America at Twitter.
themitigating 4y ago

hammock 4y ago

Seems like India wasn't the only country attempting this: "The governments of India, Nigeria, [redacted] and Russia sought, with varying success, to force Twitter to hire local FTEs that could be used as leverage." https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2022/twitter-whistleblower-sec-spam/whistleblower_disclosure.pdf https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2022/t...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
umeshunni 4y ago
hiring local FTEs is different from hiring an 'agent'
- scottiebarnes 4y ago
  Even if the candidate is provided by the government?
  - solveit 4y ago
    There's a great deal of difference between "You must hire from this government-operated job training program" and "You must hire this person. No, really, this guy." In any case, this is irrelevant. The linked document says that Russia, Nigeria, India + one redacted government sought to force Twitter to hire local FTEs "that could be used as leverage", no mention of providing candidates or anything. It looks less like trying to embed agents in Twitter and more like wanting Twitter employees they could pressure, arrest, and punish without causing a diplomatic clusterfuck. India jailing an American citizen forces the US government to intervene, and said US citizen would've fled the country long before things got that tense anyway. A citizen of their own country, on the other hand, can be much more easily contained, and when push comes to shove, the US won't do much for a foreign national who only happens to work for Twitter.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

kornhole 4y ago

It is probably one of the most difficult things to prove given the secrecy of such arrangements, but I have to assume that in order for many of these services to operate in countries, governments require concessions be they data sharing or placement of their people in operations like this. The US is no exception. https://www.mintpressnews.com/twitter-hiring-alarming-number-spooks-secret-agents/281114/ https://www.mintpressnews.com/twitter-hiring-alarming-number...

anonymousiam 4y ago

There's no government it the world that doesn't do this. If you are a multi-national corporation, you deal with it.

srean 4y ago
That is quite a sweeping and bold statement that I would like to form my own opinion about. Do you have any links to reading material ? Just to be clear I am not disagreeing or agreeing with you yet.
- exolymph 4y ago
  Snowden revelations: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-i...
  - themitigating 4y ago
    That's only one governments actions, the poster stated all governments.
    - exolymph 4y ago
      It's not just one gov't, it's Five Eyes. I guess if you're uncomfortable extrapolating from there, that's your business.
- kornhole 4y ago
  I am also shocked at such allegation. Intelligence agencies are usually quite transparent about the deployment and identities of their agents. If someone can't prove it, there is no reason to think governments would do such a thing. They exist to protect us and uphold values of free speech. Seriously though, information gathering and manipulation are some of their main duties. Any intelligence agency would be negligent if it was not trying to infiltrate centralized social media companies.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

The Indian government is weirdly protectionist about technology companies operating inside its borders. I remember stories of people from trading firms having to carry servers they personally owned across the border in order to deploy them to trade stock, and also having to completely disclose trading algorithms to the Indian regulators.

commandlinefan 4y ago

I've always wondered why, exactly, a handful of companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google somehow dominate the internet in spite of a nearly nonexistent cost of entry into the internet and the fact that they, themselves, don't really do much - definitely not something somebody else couldn't easily do. This plays into my conspiracy theory thinking that they're so dominant because they've been propped up by entrenched government interests as long as they pay back the favors when the favors come due.

known 4y ago