4 ms·

Because, depending on the country, another government may be elected that will change the course. I can't elect anyone in the EU commission. Nor did I vote for

Because, depending on the country, another government may be elected that will change the course. I can't elect anyone in the EU commission. Nor did I vote for my country to put the EU treaties above my constitution.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
t_mann 4y ago
You also don't elect the members of your national government directly (in no country that I'm aware of, EU or otherwise, not even Switzerland). You're electing members of parliament and/or a president, who will then jointly appoint members of your national government, EU commissioners and a host of other political/judicial/administrative/... positions, in sometimes complicated processes. So your democratic choices affect the EU commission just as they affect your national politics. I'm not saying that the EU couldn't do more to strengthen direct democracy (eg the role of the European Parliament, referenda, direct election of the president of the commission...). I would actually welcome that, but suggesting that current EU politics isn't democratic is a severe misrepresentation of the facts (one that is often peddled by actors with sinister agendas).
- ekianjo 4y ago
  You are completely missing the point. You have a whole lot of more control on people who live next door to you than bureaucrats living thousands of miles away with whom you have absolutely no connection
  - t_mann 4y ago
    That's what Brexiteers thought, and look what they got: https://www.eff.org/de/deeplinks/2022/01/uk-paid-724000-creepy-campaign-convince-people-encryption-bad-it-wont-work https://www.eff.org/de/deeplinks/2022/01/uk-paid-724000-cree... https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/06/uk-osb-csam-scanning/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/06/uk-osb-csam-scanning/
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      N=1 does not prove anything.
      - t_mann 4y ago
        that's two acts of the UK government already. sorry if the data don't match your ideology. but sure, you can try to brush off every fact-based argument against your idea with 'it hasn't been tried often enough!'
- Longhanks 4y ago
  The constitution of Germany for example explicitly states that it is immediately rendered invalid the day the German people chooses to establish another, e.g. the ultimate power to govern the German people lies within the people. This is a fundamental freedom the EU currently does not guarantee and putting the EU treaties above countries' constitutions is frankly incompatible with this clause.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

t_mann 4y ago

You also don't elect the members of your national government directly (in no country that I'm aware of, EU or otherwise, not even Switzerland). You're electing members of parliament and/or a president, who will then jointly appoint members of your national government, EU commissioners and a host of other political/judicial/administrative/... positions, in sometimes complicated processes. So your democratic choices affect the EU commission just as they affect your national politics. I'm not saying that the EU couldn't do more to strengthen direct democracy (eg the role of the European Parliament, referenda, direct election of the president of the commission...). I would actually welcome that, but suggesting that current EU politics isn't democratic is a severe misrepresentation of the facts (one that is often peddled by actors with sinister agendas).

ekianjo 4y ago
You are completely missing the point. You have a whole lot of more control on people who live next door to you than bureaucrats living thousands of miles away with whom you have absolutely no connection
- t_mann 4y ago
  That's what Brexiteers thought, and look what they got: https://www.eff.org/de/deeplinks/2022/01/uk-paid-724000-creepy-campaign-convince-people-encryption-bad-it-wont-work https://www.eff.org/de/deeplinks/2022/01/uk-paid-724000-cree... https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/06/uk-osb-csam-scanning/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/06/uk-osb-csam-scanning/
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    N=1 does not prove anything.
    - t_mann 4y ago
      that's two acts of the UK government already. sorry if the data don't match your ideology. but sure, you can try to brush off every fact-based argument against your idea with 'it hasn't been tried often enough!'
Longhanks 4y ago
The constitution of Germany for example explicitly states that it is immediately rendered invalid the day the German people chooses to establish another, e.g. the ultimate power to govern the German people lies within the people. This is a fundamental freedom the EU currently does not guarantee and putting the EU treaties above countries' constitutions is frankly incompatible with this clause.