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Do you think it doesn't apply to the UK? I drew on a US example because it was something I could explain in enough detail. Maybe UK economic elites have mastere

by dkarl 4y ago

Do you think it doesn't apply to the UK? I drew on a US example because it was something I could explain in enough detail. Maybe UK economic elites have mastered control of their voters in a way that US elites have not. Although, you'll have to explain which economic elites in the UK decided that Brexit would be to their advantage and how they stole a march on the UK finance industry.

ben_w 4y ago
The UK "establishment" is approximately Oxbridge, the Conservative party, the Queen, and the Church of England. These groups are not quite the same thing as economic elites. The UK also has much stronger spending (and content) limits on electoral campaigns compared to the US.
pjc50 4y ago
> Although, you'll have to explain which economic elites in the UK decided that Brexit would be to their advantage The press. For a time, Johnson himself was both a minister and a "journalist" for the Times. He was paid more for writing one article a week than for being a minister. Eventually he was forced to give this up. But Brexit is to a great extent a media project, backed by sensational but misleading claims, and supported by the media/politics revolving door. The Sarah Vine/Michael Gove couple had quite an effect too.
- dkarl 4y ago
  If that's the best answer, I think it tends to show that money didn't buy Brexit. The media doesn't care what circus they're covering, as long as there are plenty of clowns and dancing bears. The people who had the money and motivation to buy public opinion on the issue lost out, and it all happened because some politicians found a message that resonated with voters and kept on it as long as it kept working.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Sounds like an explanation Adam Curtis would approve of. I wonder if he's made a film that's explored this in full yet? I know he's certainly mentioned Brexit.

by dkarl 4y ago

ben_w 4y ago

The UK "establishment" is approximately Oxbridge, the Conservative party, the Queen, and the Church of England. These groups are not quite the same thing as economic elites. The UK also has much stronger spending (and content) limits on electoral campaigns compared to the US.

pjc50 4y ago

> Although, you'll have to explain which economic elites in the UK decided that Brexit would be to their advantage The press. For a time, Johnson himself was both a minister and a "journalist" for the Times. He was paid more for writing one article a week than for being a minister. Eventually he was forced to give this up. But Brexit is to a great extent a media project, backed by sensational but misleading claims, and supported by the media/politics revolving door. The Sarah Vine/Michael Gove couple had quite an effect too.

dkarl 4y ago
If that's the best answer, I think it tends to show that money didn't buy Brexit. The media doesn't care what circus they're covering, as long as there are plenty of clowns and dancing bears. The people who had the money and motivation to buy public opinion on the issue lost out, and it all happened because some politicians found a message that resonated with voters and kept on it as long as it kept working.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Sounds like an explanation Adam Curtis would approve of. I wonder if he's made a film that's explored this in full yet? I know he's certainly mentioned Brexit.