4 ms·

Tell me, if you are having a heart attack or have had a stroke, how likely are you to have the mental fortitude required to realize that not only is there a for

Tell me, if you are having a heart attack or have had a stroke, how likely are you to have the mental fortitude required to realize that not only is there a for-profit emergency service, but you can pay to get seen now? Probably not very likely. If your emergency is urgent but not actually life threatening, then you might. You might - might - think of it if you have gall bladder or appendix types of pain, if you aren't in too much pain to think about it. And how, exactly, would this go into place? Would you call the emergency line, who proceeds to upsell you on a premium emergency room that will see you right now if only you pay money upfront? Does this also mean that poor people's lives are worth less since they cannot pay up? How about teenagers, who might be calling the emergency line yet don't actually have money to pay?

brutusborn 4y ago
Your strawmam is accurate, stroke survivors will need an ambulance. But you're forgetting that a lot of people get driven to emergency by friends or family. And if those bystanders pass a private hospital on the way to public emergency, they could decide their friend / family members life is worth the extra cost. Of course it wouldn't work for everyone, but it would ease the pressure on a failing system. Also your tone isn't conducive to a constructive discussion and is not appropriate when responding to someone who is suggesting ways to make the world a better place. Just because you can't imagine someone's idea working doesn't mean it's a bad one.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  I drove my father to the hospital when he was having a stroke. To be fair, I didn't know until he told the nurses. Just because someone is being driven by family doesn't mean that it isn't serious nor that there is realistically a chance to call around because of price. I don't care if you find my tone constructive, by the way. The issues I've raise are real issues, and if you can't explain how you'd get around these and still be sure to have the same quality of care for the poorest of people, it isn't a good plan. Unless, you know, the "separate but equal" (Which rarely works) is your goal.
  - brutusborn 4y ago
    I didn't suggest anything about seriousness of conditions, and the parent did not suggest having different quality of care for poor people. You are projecting your own politics onto our comments. The issues you have raised are real but irrelevant to the comment "What if the government allowed private enterprise to open emergency clinics in times of great need?" I addressed your first criticism (incapacitated patients) and you responded with a personal anecdote connected to a nonsensical sentence about price. I'm not going to go through the rest of them. I'm not sure why you are so belligerent, without engagement in each others arguments this is pointless so I'll stop here.
1234letshaveatw 4y ago
in the states, my experience has been that neighbors will frequently discuss the location of new urgent care clinics or share them in group chats. "hey do you guys know of any good urgent care places? I have a swollen arm from a bee sting" was a recent msg thread that popped up on my phone. Usually the patient is insured but you can (should) also ask for a cash price if needed.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  That feels positively dystopian if you're dealing with a time sensitive, life threatening, emergency. "Hey y'all, anyone know a good place for heart stuff? My husband can't feel his left arm and keeps passing out! Preferably cheap!" <Your neighbour Tom is typing...>
xtracto 4y ago
I understand you pretty well. But see, the majority of people in this forum are from the USA so most of the scenarios that you draw like "freak cases" are normal day to day things that happen in the USA where most healthcare is for-profit. For someone that is used to social/universal healthcare (like UK, Norway, France, Germany) the prospect of having to deal with stupid for-profit situations during an emergency are laughable. But for someone living in that hell, it is something normal. Not for anything you read countless of anecdotes of people deciding to stay at home and use some superglue or rolled towels when they have an accident and bleed. I've had the opportunity of experience the two systems (UK' NHS, Germany´s Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung, Mexico's IMSS for public, and Mexico's private system) and really makes me angry that society is moving toward for-profit privatized systems instead of looking to fix the issues in universal/public systems. (It's like if when we saw that the police or the firefighters were not working, we decided to make law enforcement private... throwing the baby out with the bathwater)

brutusborn 4y ago

Your strawmam is accurate, stroke survivors will need an ambulance. But you're forgetting that a lot of people get driven to emergency by friends or family. And if those bystanders pass a private hospital on the way to public emergency, they could decide their friend / family members life is worth the extra cost. Of course it wouldn't work for everyone, but it would ease the pressure on a failing system. Also your tone isn't conducive to a constructive discussion and is not appropriate when responding to someone who is suggesting ways to make the world a better place. Just because you can't imagine someone's idea working doesn't mean it's a bad one.

Broken_Hippo 4y ago
I drove my father to the hospital when he was having a stroke. To be fair, I didn't know until he told the nurses. Just because someone is being driven by family doesn't mean that it isn't serious nor that there is realistically a chance to call around because of price. I don't care if you find my tone constructive, by the way. The issues I've raise are real issues, and if you can't explain how you'd get around these and still be sure to have the same quality of care for the poorest of people, it isn't a good plan. Unless, you know, the "separate but equal" (Which rarely works) is your goal.
- brutusborn 4y ago
  I didn't suggest anything about seriousness of conditions, and the parent did not suggest having different quality of care for poor people. You are projecting your own politics onto our comments. The issues you have raised are real but irrelevant to the comment "What if the government allowed private enterprise to open emergency clinics in times of great need?" I addressed your first criticism (incapacitated patients) and you responded with a personal anecdote connected to a nonsensical sentence about price. I'm not going to go through the rest of them. I'm not sure why you are so belligerent, without engagement in each others arguments this is pointless so I'll stop here.

1234letshaveatw 4y ago

in the states, my experience has been that neighbors will frequently discuss the location of new urgent care clinics or share them in group chats. "hey do you guys know of any good urgent care places? I have a swollen arm from a bee sting" was a recent msg thread that popped up on my phone. Usually the patient is insured but you can (should) also ask for a cash price if needed.

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
That feels positively dystopian if you're dealing with a time sensitive, life threatening, emergency. "Hey y'all, anyone know a good place for heart stuff? My husband can't feel his left arm and keeps passing out! Preferably cheap!" <Your neighbour Tom is typing...>

xtracto 4y ago

I understand you pretty well. But see, the majority of people in this forum are from the USA so most of the scenarios that you draw like "freak cases" are normal day to day things that happen in the USA where most healthcare is for-profit. For someone that is used to social/universal healthcare (like UK, Norway, France, Germany) the prospect of having to deal with stupid for-profit situations during an emergency are laughable. But for someone living in that hell, it is something normal. Not for anything you read countless of anecdotes of people deciding to stay at home and use some superglue or rolled towels when they have an accident and bleed. I've had the opportunity of experience the two systems (UK' NHS, Germany´s Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung, Mexico's IMSS for public, and Mexico's private system) and really makes me angry that society is moving toward for-profit privatized systems instead of looking to fix the issues in universal/public systems. (It's like if when we saw that the police or the firefighters were not working, we decided to make law enforcement private... throwing the baby out with the bathwater)