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Riding bikes in winter is normal in Scandinavia. If its too cold, you're wearing the wrong clothes. Too hot, well, people are riding bikes in India. I'm going

Riding bikes in winter is normal in Scandinavia. If its too cold, you're wearing the wrong clothes. Too hot, well, people are riding bikes in India. I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Too far? That's an urban design problem. Nobody is suggesting rural people change their cars for bikes, although I do know some people who are loving their ebikes for property inspection...

Tade0 4y ago
> Too far? That's an urban design problem. It's also a scale problem. Inhabitants of dense, large cities like Paris or New York are famously considered generally rude, and I don't suppose there's anything special about those places other than density that would cause this. Also real estate in dense cities is disproportionately more expensive.
- dpatterbee 4y ago
  I too do not like bicycles because people in Paris are rude.
- rtlfe 4y ago
  > New York are famously considered generally rude Unclear why people believe this, but it's absolutely not true. Spend a day watching people walk to work in Manhattan vs people sitting still on the freeway in LA and it's clear who's happier and friendly. Road rage is real, and cars make people miserable.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Spend a day watching people walk to work in Manhattan vs people sitting still on the freeway in LA and it's clear who's happier and friendly. Road rage is real, and cars make people miserable. Even taking your claim as true, you’ve confused unhappiness with rudeness in placing it here, without that conflation it's a non-sequitur.
- rtlfe 4y ago
  > Also real estate in dense cities is disproportionately more expensive. That's not a law of nature. It's a result of deliberate choices made by city governments to restrict the supply of housing over the last few decades. Also the fact that it's so expensive and people keep moving there shows that it's an attractive way to live.
  - Tade0 4y ago
    > That's not a law of nature. It's a result of deliberate choices made by city governments to restrict the supply of housing over the last few decades Is it even possible to build new housing when the population density is already at 20k people per square kilometre, like in the cities mentioned? > Also the fact that it's so expensive and people keep moving there shows that it's an attractive way to live. Did you consider that not everyone has a choice in the matter and the alternative is often unemployment? There's a trend towards urbanization because people move to where the jobs are. That alone doesn't make any place more livable.
    - rtlfe 4y ago
      > Is it even possible to build new housing when the population density is already at 20k people per square kilometre, like in the cities mentioned? Absolutely. The most expensive parts of Manhattan have tons of 3-4 story townhomes that would become 12+ stories practically overnight if the zoning allowed it. Not to mention all the single-family detached homes near subway, PATH, and LIRR stations nearby. > There's a trend towards urbanization because people move to where the jobs are. Look at how many people stayed in or moved into NYC after their jobs became fully remote in the last 2 years. It's a lot.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      If you have that kind of density, you can build out and each part of the city is like its own mini city that is perfectly reasonable to live in. If you need to go to another mini city you can bike or jump on public transport. In Berlin these are refereed to as Kiez for example. Very large cities don't really have a city center as such, or at least not for most people. And you can have reasonably priced apartments or townhouses in a well connected Kiez that has everything you need to live. > Did you consider that not everyone has a choice in the matter and the alternative is often unemployment? And about far more often its the case that people would prefer to live in the city but are forced to live some-where on the far edge and then having to buy a car to drive into the city. This is what the real problem with the kind of low-density city surrounded by sprawl. The actual city centers are tiny to non existent and lots of cars.
- rowanajmarshall 4y ago
  > Inhabitants of dense, large cities like Paris or New York are famously considered generally rude Eh, I moved from a rural farming town to inner London. People in dense cities aren't rude, they're busy. If anything, city people are much more willing to help out, they just won't make a deal out of it. This twitter thread basically sums it up: https://twitter.com/jordonaut/status/1352363163686068226 https://twitter.com/jordonaut/status/1352363163686068226
pjmlp 4y ago
Most people in India drive bycicle mostly because there is no other option the family can afford. It is an upgrade of being forced to walk everywhere. Those that can afford it, quickly upgrade to motorbikes. I rode bycicle for a couple of times in Norway and Switzerland during snowy Winters, no thanks.
- wikfwikf 4y ago
  Are motorcycles somehow cooler than bicycles?
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Yes, thanks to the wind when driving fast.
- snovv_crash 4y ago
  I have a 20 minute commute on bicycle in Switzerland, and in winter it just means I need gloves, a jacket and maybe rain pants if it's raining.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Good for you, when I rode bycicle to CERN, for two years, it was because I did not have a choice, thus cycling with -15° C (in some bad days) it was. I jumped of joy when I could get a green plates car, and wasn't an happy fellow when it broke down a couple of months later.

Tade0 4y ago

> Too far? That's an urban design problem. It's also a scale problem. Inhabitants of dense, large cities like Paris or New York are famously considered generally rude, and I don't suppose there's anything special about those places other than density that would cause this. Also real estate in dense cities is disproportionately more expensive.

dpatterbee 4y ago
I too do not like bicycles because people in Paris are rude.
rtlfe 4y ago
> New York are famously considered generally rude Unclear why people believe this, but it's absolutely not true. Spend a day watching people walk to work in Manhattan vs people sitting still on the freeway in LA and it's clear who's happier and friendly. Road rage is real, and cars make people miserable.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Spend a day watching people walk to work in Manhattan vs people sitting still on the freeway in LA and it's clear who's happier and friendly. Road rage is real, and cars make people miserable. Even taking your claim as true, you’ve confused unhappiness with rudeness in placing it here, without that conflation it's a non-sequitur.
rtlfe 4y ago
> Also real estate in dense cities is disproportionately more expensive. That's not a law of nature. It's a result of deliberate choices made by city governments to restrict the supply of housing over the last few decades. Also the fact that it's so expensive and people keep moving there shows that it's an attractive way to live.
- Tade0 4y ago
  > That's not a law of nature. It's a result of deliberate choices made by city governments to restrict the supply of housing over the last few decades Is it even possible to build new housing when the population density is already at 20k people per square kilometre, like in the cities mentioned? > Also the fact that it's so expensive and people keep moving there shows that it's an attractive way to live. Did you consider that not everyone has a choice in the matter and the alternative is often unemployment? There's a trend towards urbanization because people move to where the jobs are. That alone doesn't make any place more livable.
  - rtlfe 4y ago
    > Is it even possible to build new housing when the population density is already at 20k people per square kilometre, like in the cities mentioned? Absolutely. The most expensive parts of Manhattan have tons of 3-4 story townhomes that would become 12+ stories practically overnight if the zoning allowed it. Not to mention all the single-family detached homes near subway, PATH, and LIRR stations nearby. > There's a trend towards urbanization because people move to where the jobs are. Look at how many people stayed in or moved into NYC after their jobs became fully remote in the last 2 years. It's a lot.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    If you have that kind of density, you can build out and each part of the city is like its own mini city that is perfectly reasonable to live in. If you need to go to another mini city you can bike or jump on public transport. In Berlin these are refereed to as Kiez for example. Very large cities don't really have a city center as such, or at least not for most people. And you can have reasonably priced apartments or townhouses in a well connected Kiez that has everything you need to live. > Did you consider that not everyone has a choice in the matter and the alternative is often unemployment? And about far more often its the case that people would prefer to live in the city but are forced to live some-where on the far edge and then having to buy a car to drive into the city. This is what the real problem with the kind of low-density city surrounded by sprawl. The actual city centers are tiny to non existent and lots of cars.
rowanajmarshall 4y ago
> Inhabitants of dense, large cities like Paris or New York are famously considered generally rude Eh, I moved from a rural farming town to inner London. People in dense cities aren't rude, they're busy. If anything, city people are much more willing to help out, they just won't make a deal out of it. This twitter thread basically sums it up: https://twitter.com/jordonaut/status/1352363163686068226 https://twitter.com/jordonaut/status/1352363163686068226

pjmlp 4y ago

Most people in India drive bycicle mostly because there is no other option the family can afford. It is an upgrade of being forced to walk everywhere. Those that can afford it, quickly upgrade to motorbikes. I rode bycicle for a couple of times in Norway and Switzerland during snowy Winters, no thanks.

wikfwikf 4y ago
Are motorcycles somehow cooler than bicycles?
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Yes, thanks to the wind when driving fast.
snovv_crash 4y ago
I have a 20 minute commute on bicycle in Switzerland, and in winter it just means I need gloves, a jacket and maybe rain pants if it's raining.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Good for you, when I rode bycicle to CERN, for two years, it was because I did not have a choice, thus cycling with -15° C (in some bad days) it was. I jumped of joy when I could get a green plates car, and wasn't an happy fellow when it broke down a couple of months later.