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> Every country spies on their nominal allies. no. they have sources and intelligence officers share information, for various reasons, not excluding political

> Every country spies on their nominal allies. no. they have sources and intelligence officers share information, for various reasons, not excluding political beliefs. but spying the way USA was doing it on Merkel (for example) is not common, at all. It would also mean that American intelligence is more incompetent than French or Italian intelligence, never caught spying an ally, which cast some doubts on why CIA is so highly praised... I really don't believe it's true. And frankly "former intelligence officer says that" it's more information warfare than something newsworthy. If we believed "former intelligence officers" flying saucers should be filling our skies.

Amezarak 4y ago
France has been caught spying many times. There was a huge scandal in the 90s when the French intelligence services were caught bugging American business leaders. WikiLeaks cables make the claim France is actually the “evil empire” of state-sponsored industrial espionage. France also has an enormous NSA-style spying apparatus. https://www.france24.com/en/20130702-france-usa-spying-snowden-hollande-nsa-prism-hypocritcal https://www.france24.com/en/20130702-france-usa-spying-snowd... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/04/france-electronic-spying-operation-nsa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/04/france-electro... Beyond just spying, French intelligence services even blew up a Greenpeace ship in New Zealand. They don’t have a moral problem with messing with allies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warri... Allies negotiate with each other all the time. Of course it helps them to have inside knowledge of what’s going on behind the scenes. Why do you think any country would handicap itself?
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > Why do you think any country would handicap itself? why do you think I think that? As a person from Rome I have no respect for France. The point is not that secret services spy on each other, but that mass surveillance of the scale US has built has no equivalent in the west. They have been spying their citizen too. Televisions, smartphones and even anti-virus software are all vulnerable to CIA hacking, according to the WikiLeaks documents released Tuesday. The capabilities described include recording the sounds, images and the private text messages of users, even when they resort to encrypted apps to communicate Add to that most of the corporations amassing people data are American and manufacture the most popular devices around (not limited to but including clouds, voice assistants, even roomba now) and have close relations with NSA (they have to or are willing to do it it doesn't matter) and the only logical conclusion is that they either are incompetent and got caught or they have been doing it too aggressively and the allies got pissed. Right now I believe they simply stepped up their game and catching them is just gone be harder. Wiretapping looks like child's play in comparison. But in the end my comment was about the fact that EU Parliament is not the CIA and it's not advocating for mass surveillance. There's a reason why secret services are called secret, because they are not doing it because the laws permits it.
  - Amezarak 4y ago
    Multiple EU countries have mass surveillance programs and spy on their own citizens. One of my links described the French mass surveillance program in detail.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > Multiple EU countries have mass surveillance programs and spy on their own citizens Stop saying things you can't prove. > French mass surveillance program in detail. not remotely in detail and not remotely close to what we call mass surveillance and not remotely close to what NSA does from the article (which I have to suppose you haven't read, because it's in the first paragraph) The agency intercepted signals from computers and phones in France as well as between France and other countries, looking not so much at content but to create a map of "who is talking to whom", the paper said. The metadata from phone and internet use was stocked in a "gigantic database" which could be consulted by six French intelligence and security agencies as well as the police. NSA don't simply look for metadata, they can simply ask Face.. ehm Meta for that (WhatsApp). They actually look closely at the content. The article also goes on saying that France haven't protested much about Prism because they have (assumingly) the largest system in Europe, after the Brits (that come way after the US) So not "multiple countries in Europe" but a couple countries have put in place system that rivals with WhatsApp abilities to collect metadata, but WhatsApp obtain it from willing users. Imagine what MS, Amazon, Apple, Google, Netflix, Oracle, and many other american corporations can collect for the NSA while hiding those activities as legit businesses and what that means for NSA: being free to focus only on everything else.

Amezarak 4y ago

France has been caught spying many times. There was a huge scandal in the 90s when the French intelligence services were caught bugging American business leaders. WikiLeaks cables make the claim France is actually the “evil empire” of state-sponsored industrial espionage. France also has an enormous NSA-style spying apparatus. https://www.france24.com/en/20130702-france-usa-spying-snowden-hollande-nsa-prism-hypocritcal https://www.france24.com/en/20130702-france-usa-spying-snowd... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/04/france-electronic-spying-operation-nsa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/04/france-electro... Beyond just spying, French intelligence services even blew up a Greenpeace ship in New Zealand. They don’t have a moral problem with messing with allies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warri... Allies negotiate with each other all the time. Of course it helps them to have inside knowledge of what’s going on behind the scenes. Why do you think any country would handicap itself?

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> Why do you think any country would handicap itself? why do you think I think that? As a person from Rome I have no respect for France. The point is not that secret services spy on each other, but that mass surveillance of the scale US has built has no equivalent in the west. They have been spying their citizen too. Televisions, smartphones and even anti-virus software are all vulnerable to CIA hacking, according to the WikiLeaks documents released Tuesday. The capabilities described include recording the sounds, images and the private text messages of users, even when they resort to encrypted apps to communicate Add to that most of the corporations amassing people data are American and manufacture the most popular devices around (not limited to but including clouds, voice assistants, even roomba now) and have close relations with NSA (they have to or are willing to do it it doesn't matter) and the only logical conclusion is that they either are incompetent and got caught or they have been doing it too aggressively and the allies got pissed. Right now I believe they simply stepped up their game and catching them is just gone be harder. Wiretapping looks like child's play in comparison. But in the end my comment was about the fact that EU Parliament is not the CIA and it's not advocating for mass surveillance. There's a reason why secret services are called secret, because they are not doing it because the laws permits it.
- Amezarak 4y ago
  Multiple EU countries have mass surveillance programs and spy on their own citizens. One of my links described the French mass surveillance program in detail.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > Multiple EU countries have mass surveillance programs and spy on their own citizens Stop saying things you can't prove. > French mass surveillance program in detail. not remotely in detail and not remotely close to what we call mass surveillance and not remotely close to what NSA does from the article (which I have to suppose you haven't read, because it's in the first paragraph) The agency intercepted signals from computers and phones in France as well as between France and other countries, looking not so much at content but to create a map of "who is talking to whom", the paper said. The metadata from phone and internet use was stocked in a "gigantic database" which could be consulted by six French intelligence and security agencies as well as the police. NSA don't simply look for metadata, they can simply ask Face.. ehm Meta for that (WhatsApp). They actually look closely at the content. The article also goes on saying that France haven't protested much about Prism because they have (assumingly) the largest system in Europe, after the Brits (that come way after the US) So not "multiple countries in Europe" but a couple countries have put in place system that rivals with WhatsApp abilities to collect metadata, but WhatsApp obtain it from willing users. Imagine what MS, Amazon, Apple, Google, Netflix, Oracle, and many other american corporations can collect for the NSA while hiding those activities as legit businesses and what that means for NSA: being free to focus only on everything else.