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What do you mean "flagged as criminal"? In EU we have the principle of innocent until proven guilty. No-one is criminal unless they have been through the proces

What do you mean "flagged as criminal"? In EU we have the principle of innocent until proven guilty. No-one is criminal unless they have been through the process of justice. The scenario you are describing just isn't going to happen. I'm glad that the EU are proposing sensible and proportionate solutions to the thorny issue of paedophiles concealing their depraved activities online. The privacy activists have cried wolf for so long on this one, I think people just aren't buying their arguments any more.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
In the real world, people do in fact get a guilty verdict only to discover the individual wasn't guilty. The scenario described is rare, but what you are advocating for is to overfit at the cost of a few innocents. Which is great, until it happens to you or someone you care for. The world is constantly changing. Law and justice aren't rigid. You never know when you find yourself on the other side with no way of realizing.
robertlagrant 4y ago
The biggest problem with this is that governments change. Giving them a power forever means every future government will have that power. Current intentions do not matter. Just think about every evil government in history. It wasn't always that way, and it didn't remain that way. When you know that, how can you say something isn't going to happen?
LatteLazy 4y ago
With child protection that isn't true. Social services will take your child away while they investigate. Then 2 years later, having lost your job, your family, your friends, your house and your kid you'll be found innocent because there was never any evidence. And you'll get a nice letter telling you so but you won't get any of those things back...
dathinab 4y ago
> In EU we have the principle of innocent until proven guilty. This law is de-facto undermining it. Sure the police will investigate and clear the name but Google, Apple and co. won't. They will just treat you as a criminal they don't want to do business with from the accusation onward because that's the cheapest thing to to for them. Not even including the fact that not having access to your mail until the investigation concludes can cause massive damages you will not get reimbursed for. Also having had a criminal investigation because of child pornography even if proven that you are innocent hugely increases the chance of you being suspect if there is a e.g. child being abducted around where you live. Which can destroy you live even if you are innocent in many ways, e.g. BILD printing headlines implying a person which can basically just be you is most most likely the criminal. Children being forcefully taken away from there parents even if the parents turned out innocent is another thing which did/does happen and can be traumatizing for the children. This doesn't even include cases where people are willfully wrongly convicted (even if this judgement is later overthrown). Which is a massive problem in the US when the accused is very poor. Through less so in the EU. But it still happens here in some cases, e.g. involving people with mental problems which can't properly represent themself at all and do not have a support net.
8note 4y ago
I imgine the paedophiles are also concealing their activities in physal form too? It would then be reasonble to have a police officer strip/full cavity search everyone on their way in/out of their house.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago

In the real world, people do in fact get a guilty verdict only to discover the individual wasn't guilty. The scenario described is rare, but what you are advocating for is to overfit at the cost of a few innocents. Which is great, until it happens to you or someone you care for. The world is constantly changing. Law and justice aren't rigid. You never know when you find yourself on the other side with no way of realizing.

robertlagrant 4y ago

The biggest problem with this is that governments change. Giving them a power forever means every future government will have that power. Current intentions do not matter. Just think about every evil government in history. It wasn't always that way, and it didn't remain that way. When you know that, how can you say something isn't going to happen?

LatteLazy 4y ago

With child protection that isn't true. Social services will take your child away while they investigate. Then 2 years later, having lost your job, your family, your friends, your house and your kid you'll be found innocent because there was never any evidence. And you'll get a nice letter telling you so but you won't get any of those things back...

dathinab 4y ago

> In EU we have the principle of innocent until proven guilty. This law is de-facto undermining it. Sure the police will investigate and clear the name but Google, Apple and co. won't. They will just treat you as a criminal they don't want to do business with from the accusation onward because that's the cheapest thing to to for them. Not even including the fact that not having access to your mail until the investigation concludes can cause massive damages you will not get reimbursed for. Also having had a criminal investigation because of child pornography even if proven that you are innocent hugely increases the chance of you being suspect if there is a e.g. child being abducted around where you live. Which can destroy you live even if you are innocent in many ways, e.g. BILD printing headlines implying a person which can basically just be you is most most likely the criminal. Children being forcefully taken away from there parents even if the parents turned out innocent is another thing which did/does happen and can be traumatizing for the children. This doesn't even include cases where people are willfully wrongly convicted (even if this judgement is later overthrown). Which is a massive problem in the US when the accused is very poor. Through less so in the EU. But it still happens here in some cases, e.g. involving people with mental problems which can't properly represent themself at all and do not have a support net.

8note 4y ago

I imgine the paedophiles are also concealing their activities in physal form too? It would then be reasonble to have a police officer strip/full cavity search everyone on their way in/out of their house.