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Which messenger do we switch to if this goes in? I don't think I'd have an issue convincing people. Is Signal subject to this? Telegram? Do we need something "

by throwaway22032 4y ago

Which messenger do we switch to if this goes in? I don't think I'd have an issue convincing people. Is Signal subject to this? Telegram? Do we need something "less mainstream"?

contravariant 4y ago
You could use your own Matrix server as far as I know. It's annoying you need to go that far just to prevent the EU from snooping on your communication.
- mayoi 4y ago
  You have to keep in mind that to do this you'd have to blacklist every other server from federating, keep all rooms private and disable public room discovery completely. And it still wouldn't really be all that private, because matrix is public oriented protocol and nowhere on the main website do you see the word "privacy" in context of user privacy. You also cannot really delete users, nor force deletion of their messages from servers that you're federating with once the user uses the disable endpoint. Also, matrix server specification is garbage, synapse is the only implementation that at least pretends to work reliably because of that, and it's maintained by a for-profit organization.
  - Arathorn 4y ago
    > You have to keep in mind that to do this you'd have to blacklist every other server from federating, keep all rooms private and disable public room discovery completely. Yup, if you want to run a Matrix server which doesn’t share data with any other server you just turn off federation; same as email. It’s trivial to do so. > And it still wouldn't really be all that private, because matrix is public oriented protocol and nowhere on the main website do you see the word "privacy" in context of user privacy. Nope. Matrix is for both private and public comms. For instance, right now the matrix.org homepage includes clips from the Synapse 1.65 blog post which celebrates hooking up private read receipts so you can disable read receipts from being seen by other users. > You also cannot really delete users, nor force deletion of their messages from servers that you're federating with once the user uses the disable endpoint. Obviously there is no guaranteed way to obligate a server you don’t control to delete your data. Prior to deactivating your account, you can ask servers to delete your messages. After account deletion, you don’t have a way to delete your messages… because you deleted the evidence that you created them when you deactivated your account. > Also, matrix server specification is garbage, synapse is the only implementation that at least pretends to work reliably because of that, and it's maintained by a for-profit organization. sigh. The spec is not garbage; Dendrite is perfectly usable (despite being beta), and I hear Conduit is usable too. Synapse is maintained by the Matrix.org Foundation C.I.C, which is a UK non-profit: https://matrix.org/foundation https://matrix.org/foundation. Contributions come from all over the shop, including for-profits like Element.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mayoi 4y ago
I cannot vouch for its real world security but it looked interesting enough for me to remember now: https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat
stinos 4y ago
Will this go in actually? It's quite unclear to me (esp. not knowing anything about how EU las making/passing works). IIRC last time Chat Control passed here it sounded as if all of this was still in proposal state, or something like that. Whereas on https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/messaging-and-chat-control/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/messaging-and-chat-co... one can clearly read things like All of your chat conversations and emails will be automatically searched for suspicious content which sounds unconditional.
perryizgr8 4y ago
Whatsapp seems to be best, they have end to end encryption for every chat. As long as you don't use an Iphone (where your phone itself can turn against you[1]), you will be fine. [1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...
- preisschild 4y ago
  > Whatsapp seems to be best Lol, trusting a company run by Facebook to keep your data secure. Signal has a good mix of ease of use and privacy. Then there's Matrix, which may not be that easy to use yet.

Which messenger do we switch to if this goes in? I don't think I'd have an issue convincing people. Is Signal subject to this? Telegram? Do we need something "less mainstream"?

contravariant 4y ago

You could use your own Matrix server as far as I know. It's annoying you need to go that far just to prevent the EU from snooping on your communication.

mayoi 4y ago
You have to keep in mind that to do this you'd have to blacklist every other server from federating, keep all rooms private and disable public room discovery completely. And it still wouldn't really be all that private, because matrix is public oriented protocol and nowhere on the main website do you see the word "privacy" in context of user privacy. You also cannot really delete users, nor force deletion of their messages from servers that you're federating with once the user uses the disable endpoint. Also, matrix server specification is garbage, synapse is the only implementation that at least pretends to work reliably because of that, and it's maintained by a for-profit organization.
- Arathorn 4y ago
  > You have to keep in mind that to do this you'd have to blacklist every other server from federating, keep all rooms private and disable public room discovery completely. Yup, if you want to run a Matrix server which doesn’t share data with any other server you just turn off federation; same as email. It’s trivial to do so. > And it still wouldn't really be all that private, because matrix is public oriented protocol and nowhere on the main website do you see the word "privacy" in context of user privacy. Nope. Matrix is for both private and public comms. For instance, right now the matrix.org homepage includes clips from the Synapse 1.65 blog post which celebrates hooking up private read receipts so you can disable read receipts from being seen by other users. > You also cannot really delete users, nor force deletion of their messages from servers that you're federating with once the user uses the disable endpoint. Obviously there is no guaranteed way to obligate a server you don’t control to delete your data. Prior to deactivating your account, you can ask servers to delete your messages. After account deletion, you don’t have a way to delete your messages… because you deleted the evidence that you created them when you deactivated your account. > Also, matrix server specification is garbage, synapse is the only implementation that at least pretends to work reliably because of that, and it's maintained by a for-profit organization. sigh. The spec is not garbage; Dendrite is perfectly usable (despite being beta), and I hear Conduit is usable too. Synapse is maintained by the Matrix.org Foundation C.I.C, which is a UK non-profit: https://matrix.org/foundation https://matrix.org/foundation. Contributions come from all over the shop, including for-profits like Element.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mayoi 4y ago

I cannot vouch for its real world security but it looked interesting enough for me to remember now: https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat

stinos 4y ago

Will this go in actually? It's quite unclear to me (esp. not knowing anything about how EU las making/passing works). IIRC last time Chat Control passed here it sounded as if all of this was still in proposal state, or something like that. Whereas on https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/messaging-and-chat-control/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/messaging-and-chat-co... one can clearly read things like All of your chat conversations and emails will be automatically searched for suspicious content which sounds unconditional.

perryizgr8 4y ago

Whatsapp seems to be best, they have end to end encryption for every chat. As long as you don't use an Iphone (where your phone itself can turn against you[1]), you will be fine. [1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Frequently_Asked_Questions.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...

preisschild 4y ago
> Whatsapp seems to be best Lol, trusting a company run by Facebook to keep your data secure. Signal has a good mix of ease of use and privacy. Then there's Matrix, which may not be that easy to use yet.