5 ms·

If both Visa and Mastercard refuse to deal with you, you are basically screwed in today's world.

by dannyw 4y ago

AndrewThrowaway 4y ago
And then you have articles like this: https://sweden.se/life/society/a-cashless-society https://sweden.se/life/society/a-cashless-society Where I am really not sure how to feel about it.
- noduerme 4y ago
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    >Children should see pornography and taste alcohol as early as possible. Sometimes I'm glad that "idiots" are in charge of things, rather than reckless intellectuals.
  - zyx321 4y ago
    I was with you in the first half. But porn is not suitable for children, precisely because it shows a very warped and potentially harmful understanding of sexuality. Also, could you tone down the implied eugenics a little? Bit of a yikes right there.
- wasmitnetzen 4y ago
  The Swedish Central Bank is investigating a eKrona, which would be a state-backed digital currency. I'm living in Sweden, have no problems with a cashless society in theory, but that it's all in the hands of private corporations definitely makes me unhappy.
eps 4y ago
Maybe in States, but not in the majority of the world. Definetly not in Europe.
- dalbasal 4y ago
  There are plenty of European parts where you cannot rent a car or book a hotel without visa or mastercard. Meanwhile, for a business, either of these refusing to work with you will likely kill the business on the spot. The differences between Europe and US corporatism is petty narcissism of small differences.
  - alangibson 4y ago
    > book a hotel without visa or mastercard. Maybe major chains. There are vast numbers of small-holder rentals that happily take cash. > Meanwhile, for a business, either of these refusing to work with you will likely kill the business on the spot. It's 100% possible to do business in Europe purely with bank transfer. I've been at it for years and I never interact with either Visa or Mastercard.
    - kmlx 4y ago
      small business, sure. big business, no chance.
    - dalbasal 4y ago
      You are missing the point. Yes, there are transactions that occur in cash, bank transfer & such. Fail to present a Visa/MC when you rent a car in Dublin or Brussels and you will be in for a surprise. In Dublin, standard practice is to compromise by making you pay a 5X rate... insurance or whatnot. Maybe there is a no-card option somewhere in the city, but it certainly isn't most places. Yes, you can be an electrician or consultant without accepting cards. No, it is not practically possible to run a store or most customer facing businesses. Even most electricians and consultants accept or at least use cards. There's no meaningful difference between Europe and the US. This is a powerful and hard to avoid duopoly.
      - lodovic 4y ago
        There is a major difference: VISA and mastercard offer credit cards. Not many people use credit cards in Europe, they are all debit cards. Most stores I know do not accept credit cards at all, you have to have a debit card. You can easily refuse someone credit and scrap their credit card. It is a lot harder to deny someone access to their savings.
noduerme 4y ago
- oarabbus_ 4y ago
  I didn't downvote you, but I did find it interesting that Bovada, which was originally a bitcoin sportsbook and casino, achieved Visa/Mastercard integration for deposits several years ago.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    If YC or other investors hadn't thought it was an outright joke when I asked for $500k to get a license in Malta in 2011, for what at the time was the only full Bitcoin casino that I'd handcoded with 25 socket based multiplayer games since 2008 before Bitcoin even existed, then I too would now be accepting Visa and Mastercard. And between me and now, dozens of players have come from both traditional to cryptocurrency and vice versa. It's really all who you know, or who you bribe. My policy these days is just to write good software that makes money for me personally, and no longer share it with any of these assholes. I do appreciate the non-downvote, btw. I'm drunk and prickly tonight... these topics about society eating itself get my hackles up.
- rootw0rm 4y ago
  Also, props to those of us wise enough to run a front company and keep separate books solely for the reason to manufacture eligibility to accept bank cards
  - noduerme 4y ago
    I had two options to do that in 2011; one by funneling money through Cyprus to an Israeli bank, and the other via a phony real estate company in Costa Rica. I didn't take either of them because the potential for having payouts or deposits suspended in transit by a card company, if they found the violation for miscoding gaming transactions, would've decimated any chance I had for fully legitimate operations; and also any banking freeze probably would've destroyed my standing and credibility with customers. Since it was important to me to not run a criminal enterprise and since transparency was one of the few things I could offer to set my company apart from other casinos, I declined, and instead spent a huge amount of time and energy blocking any attempt by people in the US to gamble on my site. So, no props are due whatsoever to the people who took that route. If you got away with it all these years, then abi gezunt. Most of the people I knew who did those things in the early Bitcoin years are now in prison.
fhsm 4y ago
Given the now multi year heavily covered role of payment processors in policing the boundary between sex work and abuse I’m surprised payment is so far down the list in these comments. In the news this month: - https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/02/bill-ackman-blasts-visa-saying-it-has-the-power-to-pressure-pornhub-to-remove-child-pornography.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/02/bill-ackman-blasts-visa-sayi... - https://thehill.com/policy/technology/548279-mastercard-updates-policy-for-adult-content-sellers/ https://thehill.com/policy/technology/548279-mastercard-upda... Getting deplatform by payment processors is existential. Also, of note, they are just the front door to a banking system that is generally necessary for commerce and yet under similar pressure to police: - https://www.marijuanamoment.net/marijuana-banking-reform-will-not-be-enacted-as-part-of-manufacturing-bill-congressional-leaders-agree/ https://www.marijuanamoment.net/marijuana-banking-reform-wil... - https://www.aba.com/advocacy/our-issues/cannabis https://www.aba.com/advocacy/our-issues/cannabis Perhaps nether is as salient as the news cycles devoted to SWIFT and the norming power that exclusion form it was sure to demonstrate. - https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60521822 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60521822 (Specific links are arbitrary pointers into the issues referenced)

If both Visa and Mastercard refuse to deal with you, you are basically screwed in today's world.

by dannyw 4y ago

If both Visa and Mastercard refuse to deal with you, you are basically screwed in today's world.

And then you have articles like this: https://sweden.se/life/society/a-cashless-society https://sweden.se/life/society/a-cashless-society Where I am really not sure how to feel about it.

noduerme 4y ago
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  >Children should see pornography and taste alcohol as early as possible. Sometimes I'm glad that "idiots" are in charge of things, rather than reckless intellectuals.
- zyx321 4y ago
  I was with you in the first half. But porn is not suitable for children, precisely because it shows a very warped and potentially harmful understanding of sexuality. Also, could you tone down the implied eugenics a little? Bit of a yikes right there.
wasmitnetzen 4y ago
The Swedish Central Bank is investigating a eKrona, which would be a state-backed digital currency. I'm living in Sweden, have no problems with a cashless society in theory, but that it's all in the hands of private corporations definitely makes me unhappy.

eps 4y ago

Maybe in States, but not in the majority of the world. Definetly not in Europe.

dalbasal 4y ago
There are plenty of European parts where you cannot rent a car or book a hotel without visa or mastercard. Meanwhile, for a business, either of these refusing to work with you will likely kill the business on the spot. The differences between Europe and US corporatism is petty narcissism of small differences.
- alangibson 4y ago
  > book a hotel without visa or mastercard. Maybe major chains. There are vast numbers of small-holder rentals that happily take cash. > Meanwhile, for a business, either of these refusing to work with you will likely kill the business on the spot. It's 100% possible to do business in Europe purely with bank transfer. I've been at it for years and I never interact with either Visa or Mastercard.
  - kmlx 4y ago
    small business, sure. big business, no chance.
  - dalbasal 4y ago
    You are missing the point. Yes, there are transactions that occur in cash, bank transfer & such. Fail to present a Visa/MC when you rent a car in Dublin or Brussels and you will be in for a surprise. In Dublin, standard practice is to compromise by making you pay a 5X rate... insurance or whatnot. Maybe there is a no-card option somewhere in the city, but it certainly isn't most places. Yes, you can be an electrician or consultant without accepting cards. No, it is not practically possible to run a store or most customer facing businesses. Even most electricians and consultants accept or at least use cards. There's no meaningful difference between Europe and the US. This is a powerful and hard to avoid duopoly.
    - lodovic 4y ago
      There is a major difference: VISA and mastercard offer credit cards. Not many people use credit cards in Europe, they are all debit cards. Most stores I know do not accept credit cards at all, you have to have a debit card. You can easily refuse someone credit and scrap their credit card. It is a lot harder to deny someone access to their savings.

noduerme 4y ago

oarabbus_ 4y ago
I didn't downvote you, but I did find it interesting that Bovada, which was originally a bitcoin sportsbook and casino, achieved Visa/Mastercard integration for deposits several years ago.
- noduerme 4y ago
  If YC or other investors hadn't thought it was an outright joke when I asked for $500k to get a license in Malta in 2011, for what at the time was the only full Bitcoin casino that I'd handcoded with 25 socket based multiplayer games since 2008 before Bitcoin even existed, then I too would now be accepting Visa and Mastercard. And between me and now, dozens of players have come from both traditional to cryptocurrency and vice versa. It's really all who you know, or who you bribe. My policy these days is just to write good software that makes money for me personally, and no longer share it with any of these assholes. I do appreciate the non-downvote, btw. I'm drunk and prickly tonight... these topics about society eating itself get my hackles up.
rootw0rm 4y ago
Also, props to those of us wise enough to run a front company and keep separate books solely for the reason to manufacture eligibility to accept bank cards
- noduerme 4y ago
  I had two options to do that in 2011; one by funneling money through Cyprus to an Israeli bank, and the other via a phony real estate company in Costa Rica. I didn't take either of them because the potential for having payouts or deposits suspended in transit by a card company, if they found the violation for miscoding gaming transactions, would've decimated any chance I had for fully legitimate operations; and also any banking freeze probably would've destroyed my standing and credibility with customers. Since it was important to me to not run a criminal enterprise and since transparency was one of the few things I could offer to set my company apart from other casinos, I declined, and instead spent a huge amount of time and energy blocking any attempt by people in the US to gamble on my site. So, no props are due whatsoever to the people who took that route. If you got away with it all these years, then abi gezunt. Most of the people I knew who did those things in the early Bitcoin years are now in prison.

fhsm 4y ago

Given the now multi year heavily covered role of payment processors in policing the boundary between sex work and abuse I’m surprised payment is so far down the list in these comments. In the news this month: - https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/02/bill-ackman-blasts-visa-saying-it-has-the-power-to-pressure-pornhub-to-remove-child-pornography.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/02/bill-ackman-blasts-visa-sayi... - https://thehill.com/policy/technology/548279-mastercard-updates-policy-for-adult-content-sellers/ https://thehill.com/policy/technology/548279-mastercard-upda... Getting deplatform by payment processors is existential. Also, of note, they are just the front door to a banking system that is generally necessary for commerce and yet under similar pressure to police: - https://www.marijuanamoment.net/marijuana-banking-reform-will-not-be-enacted-as-part-of-manufacturing-bill-congressional-leaders-agree/ https://www.marijuanamoment.net/marijuana-banking-reform-wil... - https://www.aba.com/advocacy/our-issues/cannabis https://www.aba.com/advocacy/our-issues/cannabis Perhaps nether is as salient as the news cycles devoted to SWIFT and the norming power that exclusion form it was sure to demonstrate. - https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60521822 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60521822 (Specific links are arbitrary pointers into the issues referenced)