4 ms·

I take objection to this line: > When I share this story with other sailors, they are universally aghast that we helped these refugees. I wonder what kind of

I take objection to this line: > When I share this story with other sailors, they are universally aghast that we helped these refugees. I wonder what kind of sailors they are conversing with, if at all.

frobozz 4y ago
Also: > The prevailing wisdom for this seafaring situation is “Don’t Stop.” The law is to render assistance. That law was based on prevailing wisdom. Apparently the author moves in different circles to the rest of seafaring folk.
- mcv 4y ago
  I think it really depends on where you are. There are still many places in the world where piracy is real, and where distress can be used to lure naive victims. In other places, piracy isn't an issue and you're legally required to offer help.
lovelearning 4y ago
I don't understand the objection. Is there any reason to assume Americans who sail are immune to xenophobia, rhetoric, and politics?
- nhooyr 4y ago
  It's clearly the "universal" that's the problem there...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
necovek 4y ago
The author is obviously from the US where fear of others permeats everything (and requires carry of arms to defend one's home, for instance). They even talked of pirates in the story. While US is not universally like that, there is probably a large proportion that is (citation missing).
- givemeethekeys 4y ago
  Sailing is a very international activity, and if one is doing large crossings, then meeting sailors from around the world is quite common. A lot can go wrong on a boat, and sailors - especially, small family crews can be forgiven for putting their safety ahead of a boat full of men that can outnumber and overpower them.
- trompetenaccoun 4y ago
  I may not know much about how horrible the US is because I've never been, but refugees are regularly endangered in European waters despite help being technically around. In one case I heard of even the Italian coastguard would do nothing until the UN was called and put pressure on them. The refugees had called emergency services and were ignored, without UN intervention they would have died. So yeah, you might want to check your bias. This isn't something that just happens in the US, it's a worldwide thing. Refugees are mistreated in Africa, in Asia - everywhere.
  - necovek 4y ago
    I never said US is horrible: it is a magnificient country, and people are very friendly and welcoming to strangers (in familiar settings). But they are also very fearful of others at the same time. The article talks of refugees encountering 5 other boats which wouldn't help them before the author did. My (completely unsubstantiated, iow, my gut feel) claim is that they are a bit more fearful of other people being out to get them than people from most European countries. Think of it like 35% of Europeans would help vs 25% of Americans (again, numbers completely fabricated, or pulled out of my behind): a small percentage points difference, but a huge relative difference.
fortysixdegrees 4y ago
I found that more than a little odd. Sailors are universally out to help other seafarers and hope for help themselves when they need it. This was the guys first blue water trip, I guess he wasnt a true sailor yet, and hadn't lived life abord for long enough to adopt the culture.
- jjav 4y ago
  You are correct in that the seafaring culture is to always render aid. Additionally it is also the law and international convention. https://www.bullivant.com/rescue-at-sea/ https://www.bullivant.com/rescue-at-sea/ “Every master is bound, so far as he can do so without serious danger to his vessel and persons thereon, to render assistance to any person in danger of being lost at sea.”
- DocTomoe 4y ago
  Sailors are. They intimately know the sea and her dangers, they know looming death and despair during many months of being subjects to powers immeasurably stronger than any human can ever imagine. I would argue that two blokes on a sailboat doing fun rides in the Caribbean are hardly sailors. I guess when they talked to other 'sailors' who were 'agast', it was the Jonas Grumby/Gilligan type.
noname123 4y ago
I have a far less interesting and infinitely less daring story (but that is my response to the author's contention, "risk everything" and your question "why people are aghast"). When I was young in my mid 20's, I've just moved to a hip and hipster neighborhood of a college town lively with grad students, artists and musicians and comics; But I was just a lonely and geeky guy lookin' to fit in and meet and make new friends with the glitsy scene. One one evening, driving back from staying late on the job, I stopped for a fellow who motioned for help in the middle of the road. It turned out that his car battery died - but peculiarly his battery would not hold charge and his engine would only run if the jumper cable hooked up at all times. So really wanting to help, I offered to get into both of our cars with the jumper cables still connected - like 2 hungry hippos joined at the open mouths and drive down gingerly down 5 city blocks 'till we got to his driveway. Someway, somehow, against many honks and even incoming traffic, we made it. I was elated and thought I had made a friend and had a great story to tell; we exchanged phone numbers, and I asked the guy to have drinks with me some times. Except the guy never replied back to my messages. And while disappointing, it wasn't a big deal in the grander scale of things in life vis-a-vis major breakup's, "major reorgs" at work or major rifts with family relatives. But with passage of time, I've learned why it still nagged at me - because if I was honest with myself: what I did was actually not very altruistic. I stopped because I was a lonely young man who was looking for some kind of excitement to take on a "hero" role even if only for a moment. A situation I was hoping would garner me some dopamine hit with truly minimal cost to me - and yes even an covert expectation that the stranger would return my " kindness" and maybe even a social reward if I re-told the story [chasing an aesthetic pleasure disguised as an ethical act in the Kierkegaardian sense]. So I don't think I'd be keen to stop for someone now - not because I've become a grumpy old man who don't believe most people are bad and you shouldn't take un-necessary personal risk. But because (a) I think real heroism is deliberately pushing all your chips [at true emotional or material sacrifice to yourself] to the middle of the table for something or people whom you love over a long sustained period of time - not some impulsive act in the moment for an emotional reward, and (b) I think those people stranded on the road should have purchased an AAA membership; or should have carried an radio for emergency contact, brought on additional provisions or a marine GPS for their course on the high seas.
- 4y ago
Semiapies 4y ago
Really, I wonder if it happened at all.

frobozz 4y ago

Also: > The prevailing wisdom for this seafaring situation is “Don’t Stop.” The law is to render assistance. That law was based on prevailing wisdom. Apparently the author moves in different circles to the rest of seafaring folk.

mcv 4y ago
I think it really depends on where you are. There are still many places in the world where piracy is real, and where distress can be used to lure naive victims. In other places, piracy isn't an issue and you're legally required to offer help.

lovelearning 4y ago

I don't understand the objection. Is there any reason to assume Americans who sail are immune to xenophobia, rhetoric, and politics?

nhooyr 4y ago
It's clearly the "universal" that's the problem there...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

necovek 4y ago

The author is obviously from the US where fear of others permeats everything (and requires carry of arms to defend one's home, for instance). They even talked of pirates in the story. While US is not universally like that, there is probably a large proportion that is (citation missing).

givemeethekeys 4y ago
Sailing is a very international activity, and if one is doing large crossings, then meeting sailors from around the world is quite common. A lot can go wrong on a boat, and sailors - especially, small family crews can be forgiven for putting their safety ahead of a boat full of men that can outnumber and overpower them.
trompetenaccoun 4y ago
I may not know much about how horrible the US is because I've never been, but refugees are regularly endangered in European waters despite help being technically around. In one case I heard of even the Italian coastguard would do nothing until the UN was called and put pressure on them. The refugees had called emergency services and were ignored, without UN intervention they would have died. So yeah, you might want to check your bias. This isn't something that just happens in the US, it's a worldwide thing. Refugees are mistreated in Africa, in Asia - everywhere.
- necovek 4y ago
  I never said US is horrible: it is a magnificient country, and people are very friendly and welcoming to strangers (in familiar settings). But they are also very fearful of others at the same time. The article talks of refugees encountering 5 other boats which wouldn't help them before the author did. My (completely unsubstantiated, iow, my gut feel) claim is that they are a bit more fearful of other people being out to get them than people from most European countries. Think of it like 35% of Europeans would help vs 25% of Americans (again, numbers completely fabricated, or pulled out of my behind): a small percentage points difference, but a huge relative difference.

fortysixdegrees 4y ago

I found that more than a little odd. Sailors are universally out to help other seafarers and hope for help themselves when they need it. This was the guys first blue water trip, I guess he wasnt a true sailor yet, and hadn't lived life abord for long enough to adopt the culture.

jjav 4y ago
You are correct in that the seafaring culture is to always render aid. Additionally it is also the law and international convention. https://www.bullivant.com/rescue-at-sea/ https://www.bullivant.com/rescue-at-sea/ “Every master is bound, so far as he can do so without serious danger to his vessel and persons thereon, to render assistance to any person in danger of being lost at sea.”
DocTomoe 4y ago
Sailors are. They intimately know the sea and her dangers, they know looming death and despair during many months of being subjects to powers immeasurably stronger than any human can ever imagine. I would argue that two blokes on a sailboat doing fun rides in the Caribbean are hardly sailors. I guess when they talked to other 'sailors' who were 'agast', it was the Jonas Grumby/Gilligan type.

noname123 4y ago

I have a far less interesting and infinitely less daring story (but that is my response to the author's contention, "risk everything" and your question "why people are aghast"). When I was young in my mid 20's, I've just moved to a hip and hipster neighborhood of a college town lively with grad students, artists and musicians and comics; But I was just a lonely and geeky guy lookin' to fit in and meet and make new friends with the glitsy scene. One one evening, driving back from staying late on the job, I stopped for a fellow who motioned for help in the middle of the road. It turned out that his car battery died - but peculiarly his battery would not hold charge and his engine would only run if the jumper cable hooked up at all times. So really wanting to help, I offered to get into both of our cars with the jumper cables still connected - like 2 hungry hippos joined at the open mouths and drive down gingerly down 5 city blocks 'till we got to his driveway. Someway, somehow, against many honks and even incoming traffic, we made it. I was elated and thought I had made a friend and had a great story to tell; we exchanged phone numbers, and I asked the guy to have drinks with me some times. Except the guy never replied back to my messages. And while disappointing, it wasn't a big deal in the grander scale of things in life vis-a-vis major breakup's, "major reorgs" at work or major rifts with family relatives. But with passage of time, I've learned why it still nagged at me - because if I was honest with myself: what I did was actually not very altruistic. I stopped because I was a lonely young man who was looking for some kind of excitement to take on a "hero" role even if only for a moment. A situation I was hoping would garner me some dopamine hit with truly minimal cost to me - and yes even an covert expectation that the stranger would return my " kindness" and maybe even a social reward if I re-told the story [chasing an aesthetic pleasure disguised as an ethical act in the Kierkegaardian sense]. So I don't think I'd be keen to stop for someone now - not because I've become a grumpy old man who don't believe most people are bad and you shouldn't take un-necessary personal risk. But because (a) I think real heroism is deliberately pushing all your chips [at true emotional or material sacrifice to yourself] to the middle of the table for something or people whom you love over a long sustained period of time - not some impulsive act in the moment for an emotional reward, and (b) I think those people stranded on the road should have purchased an AAA membership; or should have carried an radio for emergency contact, brought on additional provisions or a marine GPS for their course on the high seas.

4y ago

Semiapies 4y ago

Really, I wonder if it happened at all.