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If you've every completed a Duolingo just to realize you can barely string a sentence together you will have shared my pain. Language acquisition is a long, con

by ipnon 4y ago

If you've every completed a Duolingo just to realize you can barely string a sentence together you will have shared my pain. Language acquisition is a long, confusing and lonely road. It's clear that OPs vision for NLP augmented language learning will be the norm one day sooner or later. Dictionaries, endless books and tutors is just too much time and money for most people.

akprasad 4y ago
Oh, I completely agree on the problem, and I think any technological solution to that problem will require NLP (perhaps tautologically so). But to my mind, the open questions are (a) what does that mean specifically? and (b) is a tool like that compelling enough to motivate a venture-backed startup in 2022? To expand on (a), I think a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer [1] that generates interesting level-appropriate content on the fly is extremely compelling, and it's aligned pedagogically with principles like extensive reading [2]. Leaving aside its feasibility, such a primer is clearly providing NLP-augmented language learning --- but at the same time, it's a very different vision from what OP describes. More broadly, tools more aligned with communicative language teaching (CLT) would almost certainly rely on NLP without reaching too deeply for dictionaries, exercises, spaced repetition, and grammatical explanations, all of which seem to be in scope for OP. There's a lot of room here, which is why I maintain that the critical question is a simple one: is OP's specific solution to the problem something people want? [1]: https://notes.andymatuschak.org/The_Young_Lady%E2%80%99s_Illustrated_Primer https://notes.andymatuschak.org/The_Young_Lady%E2%80%99s_Ill... [2]: https://erfoundation.org/wordpress/ https://erfoundation.org/wordpress/
- solarmist 4y ago
  Huh? I don’t follow. Parsnip is a tool to highlight and surface unknown words to directly enable easier extensive reading and comprehensible input. One of the key parts of it is a reader app. Just because we can’t see the steps needed to build the primer doesn’t mean we shouldn’t create anything. It seems like you find something about my idea distasteful, but I’m having trouble understanding what, if anything, your objection is? Is it too “mechanical” of an approach to you? If so I hope you realize what I’m describing is “how the sausage is made” not what the user experience will be like. Computers are here to enhance human experiences not make us more mechanical. Also, Duolingo and quizlet are both billion dollar companies, so I believe that proves VC interest. Language learning is a nearly universal desire, but most people give up on it in their teens.
  - akprasad 4y ago
    I was just replying to ipnon's comment in the abstract here -- it wasn't specifically about Parsnip, and I don't mean it as a subtweet or anything like that.
    - solarmist 4y ago
      Ok, gotcha. Yeah, I understand that. It can be hard to determine intention with text only.
ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
The answer is that Duolingo doesn't teach you grammar, which is why a bunch of startups have popped up to teach grammar specifically. It's not evident NLP is the solution.

by ipnon 4y ago

akprasad 4y ago

Oh, I completely agree on the problem, and I think any technological solution to that problem will require NLP (perhaps tautologically so). But to my mind, the open questions are (a) what does that mean specifically? and (b) is a tool like that compelling enough to motivate a venture-backed startup in 2022? To expand on (a), I think a Young Lady's Illustrated Primer [1] that generates interesting level-appropriate content on the fly is extremely compelling, and it's aligned pedagogically with principles like extensive reading [2]. Leaving aside its feasibility, such a primer is clearly providing NLP-augmented language learning --- but at the same time, it's a very different vision from what OP describes. More broadly, tools more aligned with communicative language teaching (CLT) would almost certainly rely on NLP without reaching too deeply for dictionaries, exercises, spaced repetition, and grammatical explanations, all of which seem to be in scope for OP. There's a lot of room here, which is why I maintain that the critical question is a simple one: is OP's specific solution to the problem something people want? [1]: https://notes.andymatuschak.org/The_Young_Lady%E2%80%99s_Illustrated_Primer https://notes.andymatuschak.org/The_Young_Lady%E2%80%99s_Ill... [2]: https://erfoundation.org/wordpress/ https://erfoundation.org/wordpress/

solarmist 4y ago
Huh? I don’t follow. Parsnip is a tool to highlight and surface unknown words to directly enable easier extensive reading and comprehensible input. One of the key parts of it is a reader app. Just because we can’t see the steps needed to build the primer doesn’t mean we shouldn’t create anything. It seems like you find something about my idea distasteful, but I’m having trouble understanding what, if anything, your objection is? Is it too “mechanical” of an approach to you? If so I hope you realize what I’m describing is “how the sausage is made” not what the user experience will be like. Computers are here to enhance human experiences not make us more mechanical. Also, Duolingo and quizlet are both billion dollar companies, so I believe that proves VC interest. Language learning is a nearly universal desire, but most people give up on it in their teens.
- akprasad 4y ago
  I was just replying to ipnon's comment in the abstract here -- it wasn't specifically about Parsnip, and I don't mean it as a subtweet or anything like that.
  - solarmist 4y ago
    Ok, gotcha. Yeah, I understand that. It can be hard to determine intention with text only.

ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago

The answer is that Duolingo doesn't teach you grammar, which is why a bunch of startups have popped up to teach grammar specifically. It's not evident NLP is the solution.