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Exactly, folks like @senttoschool seem to think that somehow Chinese workers are okay with being treated like shit indefinitely - they aren't. Like anyone else

by tharne 4y ago

Exactly, folks like @senttoschool seem to think that somehow Chinese workers are okay with being treated like shit indefinitely - they aren't. Like anyone else, Chinese workers are going to push for better wages and working conditions. We've already seen this with wages in India for software devs.

senttoschool 4y ago
Wait, when did I say Silicon Valley folks should work 996? I just said they should return to office if/when their employer mandates it. You think this is "being pushed around like peasants" and working 996. Come on man. It's the damn office. You know. The place everyone worked from as recent as 2020? People in China are working 996. People here are still "working" from home and refusing to come back to the office. A lot of spoiled workers here. Hopefully a recession will wake them up soon. I loved it when Elon said everyone back in the office or quit. Apple won't say this because they don't want any bad PR but they should.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  You implied that Chinese tech workers work harder than their Silicon Valley equivalents. And that is true, because 996 culture is widespread there. But 996 is also receiving backlash, and in time they will reach convergence with the work conditions of American workers. And when they call for remote work as well, will you call them "spoiled" too? (Not to mention, with the zero-COVID policies there, there are probably plenty of Chinese tech workers working remotely.) Calling acceptance of remote work "spoiled" is being ignorant of history. Just a few years ago, this extent of remote was unthinkable in tech. Companies would rather spend lavishly on slick hip offices with foosball tables no one played, on beer kegs that weren't exactly professional, to entice employees to work on-site, in open offices. Open offices are a near-universal bane of the industry and there was no check against management from adopting them. This past two years of remote was an unexpected windfall. And you call employees spoiled for finally getting a chance to escape the commute, away from open offices? Fine. That's your value system and you may live by it. Don't expect most people to agree. As for Musk, the anti-remote tempest in a teapot was clearly another one of his acts of social media sleights-of-hand. Tesla was planning layoffs, and encouraging employees to quit because of the sideshow of remote vs. onsite was a convenient way to avoid paying termination benefits. Congrats on falling for the gambit.
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    >You implied that Chinese tech workers work harder than their Silicon Valley equivalents. And that is true, because 996 culture is widespread there. It's true without 996 culture. >And when they call for remote work as well, will you call them "spoiled" too? When they don't call for remote work, will you call them hardworking? >Calling acceptance of remote work "spoiled" is being ignorant of history. It's not. How much history do you think there is? I wasn't born in 2020. >Tesla was planning layoffs, and encouraging employees to quit because of the sideshow of remote vs. onsite was a convenient way to avoid paying termination benefits. Congrats on falling for the gambit. Maybe part of the mandate was to ask some people to leave. But I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Remote work is not more productive for a company. Maybe it's about the same for ticket crunching software engineers who don't care about anything else that is happening in the company.
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      > When they don't call for remote work, will you call them hardworking? That's a nonsensical reversal. > It's not. Then we agree. It is not spoiled to call for remote work. > Remote work is not more productive for a company. You may choose believe what you want, but a reasonable discourse needs data and studies.

by tharne 4y ago

senttoschool 4y ago

Wait, when did I say Silicon Valley folks should work 996? I just said they should return to office if/when their employer mandates it. You think this is "being pushed around like peasants" and working 996. Come on man. It's the damn office. You know. The place everyone worked from as recent as 2020? People in China are working 996. People here are still "working" from home and refusing to come back to the office. A lot of spoiled workers here. Hopefully a recession will wake them up soon. I loved it when Elon said everyone back in the office or quit. Apple won't say this because they don't want any bad PR but they should.

Apocryphon 4y ago
You implied that Chinese tech workers work harder than their Silicon Valley equivalents. And that is true, because 996 culture is widespread there. But 996 is also receiving backlash, and in time they will reach convergence with the work conditions of American workers. And when they call for remote work as well, will you call them "spoiled" too? (Not to mention, with the zero-COVID policies there, there are probably plenty of Chinese tech workers working remotely.) Calling acceptance of remote work "spoiled" is being ignorant of history. Just a few years ago, this extent of remote was unthinkable in tech. Companies would rather spend lavishly on slick hip offices with foosball tables no one played, on beer kegs that weren't exactly professional, to entice employees to work on-site, in open offices. Open offices are a near-universal bane of the industry and there was no check against management from adopting them. This past two years of remote was an unexpected windfall. And you call employees spoiled for finally getting a chance to escape the commute, away from open offices? Fine. That's your value system and you may live by it. Don't expect most people to agree. As for Musk, the anti-remote tempest in a teapot was clearly another one of his acts of social media sleights-of-hand. Tesla was planning layoffs, and encouraging employees to quit because of the sideshow of remote vs. onsite was a convenient way to avoid paying termination benefits. Congrats on falling for the gambit.
- senttoschool 4y ago
  >You implied that Chinese tech workers work harder than their Silicon Valley equivalents. And that is true, because 996 culture is widespread there. It's true without 996 culture. >And when they call for remote work as well, will you call them "spoiled" too? When they don't call for remote work, will you call them hardworking? >Calling acceptance of remote work "spoiled" is being ignorant of history. It's not. How much history do you think there is? I wasn't born in 2020. >Tesla was planning layoffs, and encouraging employees to quit because of the sideshow of remote vs. onsite was a convenient way to avoid paying termination benefits. Congrats on falling for the gambit. Maybe part of the mandate was to ask some people to leave. But I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Remote work is not more productive for a company. Maybe it's about the same for ticket crunching software engineers who don't care about anything else that is happening in the company.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    > When they don't call for remote work, will you call them hardworking? That's a nonsensical reversal. > It's not. Then we agree. It is not spoiled to call for remote work. > Remote work is not more productive for a company. You may choose believe what you want, but a reasonable discourse needs data and studies.