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How does this make sense? There is only one iOS alternative. There are 1.2 million other places these people can go work.

Apocryphon 4y ago
Changing one's employment can be a difficult, life-changing process. To just blithely suggest people can change jobs easily is underestimating the immense amount of work involved in the process, and the immense amount of personal complications involved. People might be dependent on an insurance plan provided by the company. They might not find it practical to change jobs at the moment. Not every role at Apple is as mobile as software engineering. Even among software engineers, you then have to deal with the Leetcode grind. The very act of applying for jobs is stressful and time-intensive, just ask people who are laid off. People might not find it advantageous to leave yet because of the vesting cycle. People might not want to leave because they actually care about the customers and users they would be abandoning. In short, you are asking people to take a drastic step, rather than simply questioning management. Why do workers have to accept that? What makes them wrong and this policy right? And regardless of who is right, if employees disagree with their treatment, they should be able to complain and voice discontent, right?
- sn0w_crash 4y ago
  But to your point, workers do not “have to accept that.” To me this is very simple. If the company wants them in office, they can leave. If enough talented people leave then the company will suffer. I as an employee do not feel that I should change my employer’s policy, which they’ve had for 40 years, simply because I feel it should be a certain way. I cannot fathom that level of entitlement. It just doesn’t register in my brain.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    > If the company wants them in office, they can leave. If enough talented people leave then the company will suffer. Before people leave, they could at least try to see if management is flexible. Perhaps they like working there and care about the product and the customers and don’t want to leave right away. Perhaps they feel like a case can be made. If you are passed over for a promotion or the company withholds your bonus or you feel wronged otherwise, you don’t immediately leave your company, do you? Likewise, you may try to work with management or HR to see if what you want is achievable first, before leaving. > I as an employee do not feel that I should change my employer’s policy, which they’ve had for 40 years, simply because I feel it should be a certain way. The ability to conduct remote work was not present for forty years, and was not tested until the pandemic. Now that it has been tried, the change back seems negotiable, especially if the company’s bottom line did not suffer during the period of remote work. Why so much respect for policy that is itself malleable in the hands of management? What if you had personal needs, a young child, a sick parent, and you had to take time away from the office to care for them, would you not ask for an exception? People do and are granted them all of the time. So this is just an example of people asking for that exception collectively, and to them it seems reasonable, because again, the company has literally just applied that policy for the past two years and the bottom line is stronger than ever. > I cannot fathom that level of entitlement. It just doesn’t register in my brain. Well, with that sort of mindset we would never have had the eight hour working day, or weekends, so to each their own.

Apocryphon 4y ago

Changing one's employment can be a difficult, life-changing process. To just blithely suggest people can change jobs easily is underestimating the immense amount of work involved in the process, and the immense amount of personal complications involved. People might be dependent on an insurance plan provided by the company. They might not find it practical to change jobs at the moment. Not every role at Apple is as mobile as software engineering. Even among software engineers, you then have to deal with the Leetcode grind. The very act of applying for jobs is stressful and time-intensive, just ask people who are laid off. People might not find it advantageous to leave yet because of the vesting cycle. People might not want to leave because they actually care about the customers and users they would be abandoning. In short, you are asking people to take a drastic step, rather than simply questioning management. Why do workers have to accept that? What makes them wrong and this policy right? And regardless of who is right, if employees disagree with their treatment, they should be able to complain and voice discontent, right?

sn0w_crash 4y ago
But to your point, workers do not “have to accept that.” To me this is very simple. If the company wants them in office, they can leave. If enough talented people leave then the company will suffer. I as an employee do not feel that I should change my employer’s policy, which they’ve had for 40 years, simply because I feel it should be a certain way. I cannot fathom that level of entitlement. It just doesn’t register in my brain.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  > If the company wants them in office, they can leave. If enough talented people leave then the company will suffer. Before people leave, they could at least try to see if management is flexible. Perhaps they like working there and care about the product and the customers and don’t want to leave right away. Perhaps they feel like a case can be made. If you are passed over for a promotion or the company withholds your bonus or you feel wronged otherwise, you don’t immediately leave your company, do you? Likewise, you may try to work with management or HR to see if what you want is achievable first, before leaving. > I as an employee do not feel that I should change my employer’s policy, which they’ve had for 40 years, simply because I feel it should be a certain way. The ability to conduct remote work was not present for forty years, and was not tested until the pandemic. Now that it has been tried, the change back seems negotiable, especially if the company’s bottom line did not suffer during the period of remote work. Why so much respect for policy that is itself malleable in the hands of management? What if you had personal needs, a young child, a sick parent, and you had to take time away from the office to care for them, would you not ask for an exception? People do and are granted them all of the time. So this is just an example of people asking for that exception collectively, and to them it seems reasonable, because again, the company has literally just applied that policy for the past two years and the bottom line is stronger than ever. > I cannot fathom that level of entitlement. It just doesn’t register in my brain. Well, with that sort of mindset we would never have had the eight hour working day, or weekends, so to each their own.