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>> I guess it seems to me that there are way more questions about those with > 80k. I am going to assume they ended up that way because they made poor decisions

>> I guess it seems to me that there are way more questions about those with > 80k. I am going to assume they ended up that way because they made poor decisions, like taking out massive loans to do things like not work, to attend over priced schools, to slack on school work and have to repeat school. > So the most important follow-up question to all of this is when did you do it? College costs have risen exponentially faster than just about everything other than healthcare, especially over the last 10-20 years. The only kind of student debt forgiveness that I'd maybe support is the kind that allowed the debt to be discharged in a bankruptcy, then claw back the money from the school. That would create consequences that would incentivize positive changes. A money giveaway would just be a socialize-the-risk/privatize-the-gains perversion.

pc86 4y ago
I'm torn on clawing the money back. I can think of 2-3 instances just off the top of my head where you could (legitimately) declare bankruptcy but the school shouldn't necessarily lose $50-100k because of that. Especially if nothing else about the current climate changes, all that will do is cause costs to rise even faster as the school just increases tuition to compensate.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > I can think of 2-3 instances just off the top of my head where you could (legitimately) declare bankruptcy but the school shouldn't necessarily lose $50-100k because of that. Do you have an example? Like buying too much house and getting then getting fired from your job? I suppose the bankruptcy judge could make a determination of the student debt was a major cause of the bankruptcy, and only clawing back the money in those cases. > Especially if nothing else about the current climate changes, all that will do is cause costs to rise even faster as the school just increases tuition to compensate. But wouldn't that quickly spiral out of control for the school? If they just increase tuition, then they'd get more money clawed back down the road (assuming it's an ongoing policy, not a one-time program). I'm thinking they'd mainly have to cut costs, dip into endowments, or do some fundraising to fill the gap.
  - pc86 4y ago
    Yeah, really anything that isn't "I got a worthless degree and my earnings as a barista don't cover it" isn't really the school's fault. I'm sure there are some gray areas. You'd probably need to have some sort of income threshold where the loans are no longer dischargeable. But then what happens if you're unemployed? If your degree has gotten you a $200k/yr job in the past but you're unemployed now, are they dischargeable? What happens if they're discharged and you get another $200k/yr job two weeks later? Etc.

pc86 4y ago

I'm torn on clawing the money back. I can think of 2-3 instances just off the top of my head where you could (legitimately) declare bankruptcy but the school shouldn't necessarily lose $50-100k because of that. Especially if nothing else about the current climate changes, all that will do is cause costs to rise even faster as the school just increases tuition to compensate.

tablespoon 4y ago
> I can think of 2-3 instances just off the top of my head where you could (legitimately) declare bankruptcy but the school shouldn't necessarily lose $50-100k because of that. Do you have an example? Like buying too much house and getting then getting fired from your job? I suppose the bankruptcy judge could make a determination of the student debt was a major cause of the bankruptcy, and only clawing back the money in those cases. > Especially if nothing else about the current climate changes, all that will do is cause costs to rise even faster as the school just increases tuition to compensate. But wouldn't that quickly spiral out of control for the school? If they just increase tuition, then they'd get more money clawed back down the road (assuming it's an ongoing policy, not a one-time program). I'm thinking they'd mainly have to cut costs, dip into endowments, or do some fundraising to fill the gap.
- pc86 4y ago
  Yeah, really anything that isn't "I got a worthless degree and my earnings as a barista don't cover it" isn't really the school's fault. I'm sure there are some gray areas. You'd probably need to have some sort of income threshold where the loans are no longer dischargeable. But then what happens if you're unemployed? If your degree has gotten you a $200k/yr job in the past but you're unemployed now, are they dischargeable? What happens if they're discharged and you get another $200k/yr job two weeks later? Etc.