3 ms·

I was thinking of the former - basically a bunch of people who would be well within the bounds of "normal" even if unmedicated, but who have easy access to powe

I was thinking of the former - basically a bunch of people who would be well within the bounds of "normal" even if unmedicated, but who have easy access to powerful stimulants and thrive off the high-productivity buzz. Looking at the rates of ADHD diagnosis worldwide, it is clear that someone is getting it wrong - but that brings us to the deeper discussion of how far capitalism should be allowed to dominate; i.e. whether having large numbers of drugged-up but productive citizens is actually an OK situation for a country to be in.

t_mann 4y ago
Ok, thanks for clarifying. Are there any studies actually showing productivity boosts in healthy adults from ADHD medications? I've heard about it, but it seemed more anecdotal, and it's not uncommon for drug users to rationalize their consumption in some way, eg based on their first experience.
- tetromino_ 4y ago
  Hitler's Wehrmacht did some studies (on unwitting human subjects, naturally), and concluded that as far as waging illegal war is concerned, methamphetamine is great for productivity: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/methamphetamine-dictatorship-hitler-nazi-germany-and-drug-abuse https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/methamphetamine-dictat... U.S. Air Force, being tasked with a somewhat similar job, came to similar conclusions: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7661838/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7661838/
- boppo1 4y ago
  I am diagnosed and was prescribed for ~3 years. I am honest with myself about it. I don't take it anymore because I wound up in a pattern of abuse. I don't have a study, but the answer is yes, it definitely can boost productivity. But overall, a huge number of people take it for the high.
barrysteve 4y ago
It's very hard to get ADHD 'right', as the state of the art research can't show biologically what it is or who has it. ADHD-alike symptoms can be caused by thyroid problems, low vitamin levels, narcolepsy, depression, parasites and more. It's a sad state of affairs because people genuinely suffer for it and we don't have the foggiest what's going on, despite ever ramping research funding. Curing it could bring back billions to the economy. It was first described (written down) in the late 1700s. Medicine is using very blunt tools (amphetamines, ect) out of necessity to treat problems which need far better understanding. We really need better, cheaper and more accessible medical tech. A non-theranos, steve jobs style medical tech revolution would do a lot of good for a lot of people and put cured patients to useful work, who would otherwise suffer.
floxy 4y ago
>Looking at the rates of ADHD diagnosis worldwide, it is clear that someone is getting it wrong Isn't the usual answer something like: "People with ADHD-like characteristics are restless and impulsive, therefore more likely to decide to strike out on big new adventures. Like emigrating to an exciting new country. So the U.S. has been an ADHD magnet since before its founding, leading to a much higher prevalence / diagnosis than most other parts of the world. And since ADHD is hereditary, it gets passed down the generations, sustaining the imbalance with the rest of the world. And/or maybe there is an amplification effect where in most populations the ADHD genes stay diluted in the gene pool, since it is not a common occurrence, and people with ADHD generally had kids with non-ADHD people. But at certain base rates, the ADHD people start having children with each other, intensify the effects."

t_mann 4y ago

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Are there any studies actually showing productivity boosts in healthy adults from ADHD medications? I've heard about it, but it seemed more anecdotal, and it's not uncommon for drug users to rationalize their consumption in some way, eg based on their first experience.

tetromino_ 4y ago
Hitler's Wehrmacht did some studies (on unwitting human subjects, naturally), and concluded that as far as waging illegal war is concerned, methamphetamine is great for productivity: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/methamphetamine-dictatorship-hitler-nazi-germany-and-drug-abuse https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/methamphetamine-dictat... U.S. Air Force, being tasked with a somewhat similar job, came to similar conclusions: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7661838/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7661838/
boppo1 4y ago
I am diagnosed and was prescribed for ~3 years. I am honest with myself about it. I don't take it anymore because I wound up in a pattern of abuse. I don't have a study, but the answer is yes, it definitely can boost productivity. But overall, a huge number of people take it for the high.

barrysteve 4y ago

It's very hard to get ADHD 'right', as the state of the art research can't show biologically what it is or who has it. ADHD-alike symptoms can be caused by thyroid problems, low vitamin levels, narcolepsy, depression, parasites and more. It's a sad state of affairs because people genuinely suffer for it and we don't have the foggiest what's going on, despite ever ramping research funding. Curing it could bring back billions to the economy. It was first described (written down) in the late 1700s. Medicine is using very blunt tools (amphetamines, ect) out of necessity to treat problems which need far better understanding. We really need better, cheaper and more accessible medical tech. A non-theranos, steve jobs style medical tech revolution would do a lot of good for a lot of people and put cured patients to useful work, who would otherwise suffer.

floxy 4y ago

>Looking at the rates of ADHD diagnosis worldwide, it is clear that someone is getting it wrong Isn't the usual answer something like: "People with ADHD-like characteristics are restless and impulsive, therefore more likely to decide to strike out on big new adventures. Like emigrating to an exciting new country. So the U.S. has been an ADHD magnet since before its founding, leading to a much higher prevalence / diagnosis than most other parts of the world. And since ADHD is hereditary, it gets passed down the generations, sustaining the imbalance with the rest of the world. And/or maybe there is an amplification effect where in most populations the ADHD genes stay diluted in the gene pool, since it is not a common occurrence, and people with ADHD generally had kids with non-ADHD people. But at certain base rates, the ADHD people start having children with each other, intensify the effects."