4 ms·

So the most important follow-up question to all of this is when did you do it? College costs have risen exponentially faster than just about everything other th

by pc86 4y ago

So the most important follow-up question to all of this is when did you do it? College costs have risen exponentially faster than just about everything other than healthcare, especially over the last 10-20 years. I graduated almost 15 years ago, and I am starting to think that anyone who graduated more than a few years ago simply cannot comprehend how bad it is to have to pay for school now. Average annual tuition at all 4-year institutions is just under $29k.[0] Real median HHI for the same year was $65k.[1] As a student you simply cannot work enough to pay for school anymore; it's not physically possible. So loans, grants, scholarships etc are a requirement. Completely unrelated to the math, the idea that everyone with a high loan balance is there because of "piss poor decisions" is not only insulting, but also idiotic. You need to have a pretty impressive lack of understanding about a half dozen or so topics to truly believe that. [0] https://www.ontocollege.com/average-college-tuition/ https://www.ontocollege.com/average-college-tuition/ [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

buscoquadnary 4y ago
Finished my MS last year, finished my BS in 2018. So there's that, and you don't need to go to a fancy pants top of the line university. Plenty of ways to make things more affordable, like go to a community college for your associates then transfer to a full university. Maybe I do have an impressive lack of understanding of a dozen or so topics, but I grew up as the oldest of over 5 children to a single mother who was a school teacher, I spent most of my school time on free or reduced lunch, and was categorized statistically speaking as likely to end up low achieving. So sure there might be mitigating circumstances for some people, but I don't think that we can completely abscond with the idea of personal responsibility. Further the reason school costs have continued to rise is because the schools know everyone will get a loan for it because the government pumps a bunch of money into just this one sector through the loans, by forgiving loans you are incentivizing a continuation of school's increasing price because they face no consequences for it and will still receive the money they want. Finally if you aren't convinced by my account, I have a friend currently finishing his degree, he has spent his entire summer laying concrete in the hot sun for hours a day, busting his but to provide for his family and have enough money to finish his degree, so that is currently happening. To pretend that college can't be afforded without ridiculous loan is hokum.
- pc86 4y ago
  The schools have already received money for this loans. Anything you do with them doesn't affect the school at all. It doesn't affect whether or not they got paid 10 years ago and it doesn't affect the loans that will be taken out over the next 10.
tablespoon 4y ago
>> I guess it seems to me that there are way more questions about those with > 80k. I am going to assume they ended up that way because they made poor decisions, like taking out massive loans to do things like not work, to attend over priced schools, to slack on school work and have to repeat school. > So the most important follow-up question to all of this is when did you do it? College costs have risen exponentially faster than just about everything other than healthcare, especially over the last 10-20 years. The only kind of student debt forgiveness that I'd maybe support is the kind that allowed the debt to be discharged in a bankruptcy, then claw back the money from the school. That would create consequences that would incentivize positive changes. A money giveaway would just be a socialize-the-risk/privatize-the-gains perversion.
- pc86 4y ago
  I'm torn on clawing the money back. I can think of 2-3 instances just off the top of my head where you could (legitimately) declare bankruptcy but the school shouldn't necessarily lose $50-100k because of that. Especially if nothing else about the current climate changes, all that will do is cause costs to rise even faster as the school just increases tuition to compensate.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > I can think of 2-3 instances just off the top of my head where you could (legitimately) declare bankruptcy but the school shouldn't necessarily lose $50-100k because of that. Do you have an example? Like buying too much house and getting then getting fired from your job? I suppose the bankruptcy judge could make a determination of the student debt was a major cause of the bankruptcy, and only clawing back the money in those cases. > Especially if nothing else about the current climate changes, all that will do is cause costs to rise even faster as the school just increases tuition to compensate. But wouldn't that quickly spiral out of control for the school? If they just increase tuition, then they'd get more money clawed back down the road (assuming it's an ongoing policy, not a one-time program). I'm thinking they'd mainly have to cut costs, dip into endowments, or do some fundraising to fill the gap.
homeland221 4y ago
Assuming you have 100K, just pay 500 a month would clear it even if interest is at 5% after 36 years. Interest is fixed for student loan so it wont go up and down like current fed rates. And that is extreme. Most have loan around 30K which can pay down in 6 years at 500 per month. Most students coming out to work can easily earn 2K a month. But nearly all has no discipline. They need netflix. They need clubbing. The need vacations. They need broadband. They need the latest iPhone Samsung. Just suffer like a monk for 5 years. Eat like a monk. No sex. No clubbing. Every dollar earned is used to pay down the debt. Dont rent expensive. Rent as cheap as possible. Even if you work in Walmart for 5 years you can pay it off. Most students cant because they prioritize life indulgences over debt. And now we must reward them by paying off their debt because they cant.

by pc86 4y ago

buscoquadnary 4y ago

Finished my MS last year, finished my BS in 2018. So there's that, and you don't need to go to a fancy pants top of the line university. Plenty of ways to make things more affordable, like go to a community college for your associates then transfer to a full university. Maybe I do have an impressive lack of understanding of a dozen or so topics, but I grew up as the oldest of over 5 children to a single mother who was a school teacher, I spent most of my school time on free or reduced lunch, and was categorized statistically speaking as likely to end up low achieving. So sure there might be mitigating circumstances for some people, but I don't think that we can completely abscond with the idea of personal responsibility. Further the reason school costs have continued to rise is because the schools know everyone will get a loan for it because the government pumps a bunch of money into just this one sector through the loans, by forgiving loans you are incentivizing a continuation of school's increasing price because they face no consequences for it and will still receive the money they want. Finally if you aren't convinced by my account, I have a friend currently finishing his degree, he has spent his entire summer laying concrete in the hot sun for hours a day, busting his but to provide for his family and have enough money to finish his degree, so that is currently happening. To pretend that college can't be afforded without ridiculous loan is hokum.

pc86 4y ago
The schools have already received money for this loans. Anything you do with them doesn't affect the school at all. It doesn't affect whether or not they got paid 10 years ago and it doesn't affect the loans that will be taken out over the next 10.

tablespoon 4y ago

>> I guess it seems to me that there are way more questions about those with > 80k. I am going to assume they ended up that way because they made poor decisions, like taking out massive loans to do things like not work, to attend over priced schools, to slack on school work and have to repeat school. > So the most important follow-up question to all of this is when did you do it? College costs have risen exponentially faster than just about everything other than healthcare, especially over the last 10-20 years. The only kind of student debt forgiveness that I'd maybe support is the kind that allowed the debt to be discharged in a bankruptcy, then claw back the money from the school. That would create consequences that would incentivize positive changes. A money giveaway would just be a socialize-the-risk/privatize-the-gains perversion.

pc86 4y ago
I'm torn on clawing the money back. I can think of 2-3 instances just off the top of my head where you could (legitimately) declare bankruptcy but the school shouldn't necessarily lose $50-100k because of that. Especially if nothing else about the current climate changes, all that will do is cause costs to rise even faster as the school just increases tuition to compensate.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > I can think of 2-3 instances just off the top of my head where you could (legitimately) declare bankruptcy but the school shouldn't necessarily lose $50-100k because of that. Do you have an example? Like buying too much house and getting then getting fired from your job? I suppose the bankruptcy judge could make a determination of the student debt was a major cause of the bankruptcy, and only clawing back the money in those cases. > Especially if nothing else about the current climate changes, all that will do is cause costs to rise even faster as the school just increases tuition to compensate. But wouldn't that quickly spiral out of control for the school? If they just increase tuition, then they'd get more money clawed back down the road (assuming it's an ongoing policy, not a one-time program). I'm thinking they'd mainly have to cut costs, dip into endowments, or do some fundraising to fill the gap.

homeland221 4y ago

Assuming you have 100K, just pay 500 a month would clear it even if interest is at 5% after 36 years. Interest is fixed for student loan so it wont go up and down like current fed rates. And that is extreme. Most have loan around 30K which can pay down in 6 years at 500 per month. Most students coming out to work can easily earn 2K a month. But nearly all has no discipline. They need netflix. They need clubbing. The need vacations. They need broadband. They need the latest iPhone Samsung. Just suffer like a monk for 5 years. Eat like a monk. No sex. No clubbing. Every dollar earned is used to pay down the debt. Dont rent expensive. Rent as cheap as possible. Even if you work in Walmart for 5 years you can pay it off. Most students cant because they prioritize life indulgences over debt. And now we must reward them by paying off their debt because they cant.