4 ms·

I think if the Russians bombed Washington State, the rest of the US would actually help defend it by attacking Russia. While the military help that the EU is g

I think if the Russians bombed Washington State, the rest of the US would actually help defend it by attacking Russia. While the military help that the EU is giving Ukraine is great, it is far below the level that the other states would provide Washington. I know that isn't exactly your point, but you can't say that Ukraine is as intrinsic to the EU as Washington State is to the rest of the US.

coffee_beqn 4y ago
Ukraine is also not in the EU.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  So the whole comparison of Washington getting bombed is nonsense.
Aulig 4y ago
Well, Ukraine is not part of the EU, so it can hardly be intrinsic to it.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
> While the military help that the EU is giving Ukraine is great It seems adequate. Europe is helping Ukraine and putting pressure for a quick end to the conflict. The real question is why is the US helping so much to the point Ukraine is refusing to negotiate. Part of me thinks it’s actually advantageous to them to weaken both Russia and the EU.
- makomk 4y ago
  The US, through NATO, is committed to defending much of Europe and the EU against Russian invasion if they decide to try anything. This war was an opportunity to demonstrate that the price will be too high to for Russia to pay and that they will not be allowed to get away with annexing other European countries, while destroying a large chunk of their military capacity in the process, all without having to actually commit the US military to fighting on the ground like they would if Russia decided to get grabby elsewhere. It is in their direct interests to seize that opportunity.
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    For sure it’s directly in the interest of the USA in the same way NATO actually keeps Europe subservient and prevent the EU from actually being a power. It’s just the usual raw deal for European countries which are going to have to deal with huge damage to their economies. But we have only ourselves to blame. We should have sent the US packing a long time ago.
- bwi4 4y ago
  If the US were to face Russia in a conventional war, there is a serious risk of nuclear escalation between the world's largest nuclear powers. The current conflict presents the US with an opportunity to weaken Russia by supporting Ukraine, do so with international support, and without contact between US and Russian troops. KILLING AND DEATHS OF PEOPLE ARE UNACCEPTABLE. FIGHTING SHOULD BE STOPPED IMMEDIATELY AND PERMANENTLY. ALL OPEN QUESTIONS SHOULD BE SOLVED BY FAIR NEGOTIATIONS. BOTH SIDES HAVE TO BE READY FOR COMPROMISES TO SAVE LIVES. https://scientists-against-war.org/ https://scientists-against-war.org/
  - ithkuil 4y ago
    > BOTH SIDES HAVE TO BE READY FOR COMPROMISES TO SAVE LIVES I agree with that in principle but I honestly can't see how to achieve that in practice in this situation. Russian leadership currently doesn't seem to care about internation rules. They believe themselves to have a sacrosanct right for greatness and the right to rule and bending to any compromise would be utterly unacceptable in that framing. I don't think this as an absolutely Russian problem; it's the problem of super-powers that are no more (but still kinda are). I fully expect a similar situation to happen in the future when American will only be a shadow of the power it used to be.
    - bwi4 4y ago
      Agreed. I also have a hard time accepting the idea of any concessions to Russia, but I understand the principle of being willing to consider any (morally acceptable) possibility to preserve irreplaceable human lives. Also agree we’re headed for a multipolar world, with climate change impacting geopolitics in the Northern hemisphere, majority of the global pop. concentrated around SEAsia, and a looming demographic collapse putting pressure on nation states to act now-or-never.
- petre 4y ago
  "Russia does not negotiate with terrorists, it destroys them" -- Vladimir Putin, 2004 Ukraine should not negotiate with a terrorist state. The US and the UK are making the correct choices for once. Maybe they finally learned something from WW2?

coffee_beqn 4y ago

Ukraine is also not in the EU.

thehappypm 4y ago
So the whole comparison of Washington getting bombed is nonsense.

Aulig 4y ago

Well, Ukraine is not part of the EU, so it can hardly be intrinsic to it.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago

> While the military help that the EU is giving Ukraine is great It seems adequate. Europe is helping Ukraine and putting pressure for a quick end to the conflict. The real question is why is the US helping so much to the point Ukraine is refusing to negotiate. Part of me thinks it’s actually advantageous to them to weaken both Russia and the EU.

makomk 4y ago
The US, through NATO, is committed to defending much of Europe and the EU against Russian invasion if they decide to try anything. This war was an opportunity to demonstrate that the price will be too high to for Russia to pay and that they will not be allowed to get away with annexing other European countries, while destroying a large chunk of their military capacity in the process, all without having to actually commit the US military to fighting on the ground like they would if Russia decided to get grabby elsewhere. It is in their direct interests to seize that opportunity.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  For sure it’s directly in the interest of the USA in the same way NATO actually keeps Europe subservient and prevent the EU from actually being a power. It’s just the usual raw deal for European countries which are going to have to deal with huge damage to their economies. But we have only ourselves to blame. We should have sent the US packing a long time ago.
bwi4 4y ago
If the US were to face Russia in a conventional war, there is a serious risk of nuclear escalation between the world's largest nuclear powers. The current conflict presents the US with an opportunity to weaken Russia by supporting Ukraine, do so with international support, and without contact between US and Russian troops. KILLING AND DEATHS OF PEOPLE ARE UNACCEPTABLE. FIGHTING SHOULD BE STOPPED IMMEDIATELY AND PERMANENTLY. ALL OPEN QUESTIONS SHOULD BE SOLVED BY FAIR NEGOTIATIONS. BOTH SIDES HAVE TO BE READY FOR COMPROMISES TO SAVE LIVES. https://scientists-against-war.org/ https://scientists-against-war.org/
- ithkuil 4y ago
  > BOTH SIDES HAVE TO BE READY FOR COMPROMISES TO SAVE LIVES I agree with that in principle but I honestly can't see how to achieve that in practice in this situation. Russian leadership currently doesn't seem to care about internation rules. They believe themselves to have a sacrosanct right for greatness and the right to rule and bending to any compromise would be utterly unacceptable in that framing. I don't think this as an absolutely Russian problem; it's the problem of super-powers that are no more (but still kinda are). I fully expect a similar situation to happen in the future when American will only be a shadow of the power it used to be.
  - bwi4 4y ago
    Agreed. I also have a hard time accepting the idea of any concessions to Russia, but I understand the principle of being willing to consider any (morally acceptable) possibility to preserve irreplaceable human lives. Also agree we’re headed for a multipolar world, with climate change impacting geopolitics in the Northern hemisphere, majority of the global pop. concentrated around SEAsia, and a looming demographic collapse putting pressure on nation states to act now-or-never.
petre 4y ago
"Russia does not negotiate with terrorists, it destroys them" -- Vladimir Putin, 2004 Ukraine should not negotiate with a terrorist state. The US and the UK are making the correct choices for once. Maybe they finally learned something from WW2?