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I think the issue here has historically been something like... the government should not be in the business of mandating taxes, and then preparing taxes... as t

I think the issue here has historically been something like... the government should not be in the business of mandating taxes, and then preparing taxes... as that could be a conflict of interests. But that seems like classic FUD to me, but it's an issue we should monitor. Obviously it's in every US taxpayer's self interest to pay as little tax as legally possible. If a government run system can achieve that reality, then fine. If however a government run system doesn't have a fiduciary duty to optimize the return, then it's probably not great, if not unethical

amanaplanacanal 4y ago
These are two different branches of government, though. Congress passes the law, and the IRS collects the taxes (the executive). And the majority of taxpayers don't itemize so should be in pretty simple tax situations.
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  There used to be a meme along the lines of "Congress was too chicken to pass a law to collect taxes, yet the IRS (executive) continues to collect them. Thus you don't have to pay taxes at all, by law." Was that nonsense? Where is the 'tax law' (not a regulation) passed by Congress?
  - rocket_surgeron 4y ago
    I don't understand your comment. >26 U.S. Code § 6301 - Collection authority >The Secretary shall collect the taxes imposed by the internal revenue laws. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6301 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6301 "The Secretary" is the United States Secretary of the Treasury, and the United States Department of the Treasury is the department of the Executive Branch that oversees the IRS. This is not hidden, secret, knowledge.
    - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
      Ok that's authority to collect. Where is the tax law? Fishing around I can't seem to find any specifics.
      - detaro 4y ago
        The rest of 26 U.S. Code? I mean it directly starts with "you need to pay income tax, here is a table of income brackets and percentages"...
        JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        Thanks! By digging seven layers deep in that link, I did eventually find it.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    Stay away from sovereign citizens. They play dumb word games or use magical thinking to convince themselves that they can ignore laws. Nothing they say or claim is reality, and has no value to people who intend to not break petty laws.
powerhour 4y ago
I think it's more that they think if people don't see it every April they won't appreciate or know to push back on how much money they're paying[0]. It's nonsense promulgated by folks targeting the low-information voter, of course. 0: https://slate.com/business/2012/04/grover-norquist-and-h-r-block-the-unholy-alliance-of-tax-prep-firms-and-conservative-activists-to-make-your-taxes-even-more-complicated.html https://slate.com/business/2012/04/grover-norquist-and-h-r-b...
- Grim-444 4y ago
  To clarify, you think that the "low-information voter" would benefit from having less information?
  - powerhour 4y ago
    I think they would benefit from having higher quality information than they get from seeing a number and possibly getting a refund check. I mean, just look at how many people report satisfaction in getting a large refund -- that's a silly thing to celebrate and seems to be the result of a misunderstanding about how taxes work. I'd prefer we have automatic taxes and a short document showing taxpayers where their money is going, especially money spent in their state or county, when applicable. This should all be easy to do, just requires political will to make it happen.
r00fus 4y ago
It should really be this simple: Government says you owe $X based calculations that it shows. You validate, correct the mistakes (e.g. inaccurate $0 basis is a common problem for RSU reporting) and have a generous time to amend the corrections. If you don't correct or can'd find anything to correct, then there's no work on your side (which would be the case for millions of people).
yongjik 4y ago
In the current system the government essentially forces you to choose between overpaying, wasting a lot of time reading up on the arcane rules, wasting a lot of time and then overpaying (because the rules are never that easy), or ponying up $$$ to a private business just so that they can prepare the forms in a way the government finds acceptable. How is this any less of a conflict of interest?

amanaplanacanal 4y ago

These are two different branches of government, though. Congress passes the law, and the IRS collects the taxes (the executive). And the majority of taxpayers don't itemize so should be in pretty simple tax situations.

JoeAltmaier 4y ago
There used to be a meme along the lines of "Congress was too chicken to pass a law to collect taxes, yet the IRS (executive) continues to collect them. Thus you don't have to pay taxes at all, by law." Was that nonsense? Where is the 'tax law' (not a regulation) passed by Congress?
- rocket_surgeron 4y ago
  I don't understand your comment. >26 U.S. Code § 6301 - Collection authority >The Secretary shall collect the taxes imposed by the internal revenue laws. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6301 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6301 "The Secretary" is the United States Secretary of the Treasury, and the United States Department of the Treasury is the department of the Executive Branch that oversees the IRS. This is not hidden, secret, knowledge.
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    Ok that's authority to collect. Where is the tax law? Fishing around I can't seem to find any specifics.
    - detaro 4y ago
      The rest of 26 U.S. Code? I mean it directly starts with "you need to pay income tax, here is a table of income brackets and percentages"...
      - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        Thanks! By digging seven layers deep in that link, I did eventually find it.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Stay away from sovereign citizens. They play dumb word games or use magical thinking to convince themselves that they can ignore laws. Nothing they say or claim is reality, and has no value to people who intend to not break petty laws.

powerhour 4y ago

I think it's more that they think if people don't see it every April they won't appreciate or know to push back on how much money they're paying[0]. It's nonsense promulgated by folks targeting the low-information voter, of course. 0: https://slate.com/business/2012/04/grover-norquist-and-h-r-block-the-unholy-alliance-of-tax-prep-firms-and-conservative-activists-to-make-your-taxes-even-more-complicated.html https://slate.com/business/2012/04/grover-norquist-and-h-r-b...

Grim-444 4y ago
To clarify, you think that the "low-information voter" would benefit from having less information?
- powerhour 4y ago
  I think they would benefit from having higher quality information than they get from seeing a number and possibly getting a refund check. I mean, just look at how many people report satisfaction in getting a large refund -- that's a silly thing to celebrate and seems to be the result of a misunderstanding about how taxes work. I'd prefer we have automatic taxes and a short document showing taxpayers where their money is going, especially money spent in their state or county, when applicable. This should all be easy to do, just requires political will to make it happen.

r00fus 4y ago

It should really be this simple: Government says you owe $X based calculations that it shows. You validate, correct the mistakes (e.g. inaccurate $0 basis is a common problem for RSU reporting) and have a generous time to amend the corrections. If you don't correct or can'd find anything to correct, then there's no work on your side (which would be the case for millions of people).

yongjik 4y ago

In the current system the government essentially forces you to choose between overpaying, wasting a lot of time reading up on the arcane rules, wasting a lot of time and then overpaying (because the rules are never that easy), or ponying up $$$ to a private business just so that they can prepare the forms in a way the government finds acceptable. How is this any less of a conflict of interest?