3 ms·

The problem they're having is with natural gas, which they need for winter heating

by brundolf 4y ago

KingOfCoders 4y ago
I gladly don't need natural gas for winter heating.
Jochim 4y ago
Petroleum prices also spiked, probably related to the war in Ukraine but I'm not 100% sure.
- brundolf 4y ago
  Yeah but my understanding is natural gas is the real driver of crisis for Europe right now, esp Germany, but Americans sometimes misunderstand when it's referred to as just "gas"
  - Jochim 4y ago
    Yeah, that's fair enough. Sadly the natural gas shortage affects more than just winter heating, in the UK at least it's one of the main factors of the price of electricity. All of this has had a knock on effect that goes way beyond just the price of heating.
- wiredfool 4y ago
  Petrol/Diesel is flat to slightly down from a few months back, though it's _way_ higher than it was pre-ukraine. In Ireland: ~1.50/l for Diesel -> 2.20, now back down to 1.89 or so. In northern Europe, I saw anywhere between 1.79 and 2.26 late July early Aug. (Including 2.26 and 2.02 on opposite sides of the motorway)
- lm28469 4y ago
  Sure, nothing to do with megacorps absolutely milking the market.... https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/teaser/27887.jpeg https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/teaser/27887.jpeg
trgn 4y ago
It's the difference between heating your house to 72 and walking around barefoot, or 68 and wearing a sweater and wearing loafers. Those are the tradeoffs. Need for indoor heating has a lot of stretch. In Europe, there's a ton of stretch on personal mobility too, since there are viable alternatives for the car. Europe can weather this crunch a lot better than America.
- TMWNN 4y ago
  >It's the difference between heating your house to 72 and walking around barefoot, or 68 and wearing a sweater and wearing loafers. Someone who actually believes the "just put a sweater on" rhetoric that even those who tried foisting it on the public quickly gave up on. Be sure to give your sage advice to the Germans and other Europeans who are this winter going to see gas bills rise 200-1000%. We've had, in the past month, a German minister stating that becoming dependent on Russian gas was a "grievous mistake", and that his country is begging for turbines from Canadian custody "with a heavy heart". His government stating that entire industries might "collapse". Rationing of gas announced. Local municipalities planning warm buildings that those without heat in their homes can visit during the winter. These are just a few of the many things that have happened that are part of the greatest German (and thus European) catastrophe in 80 years. >Those are the tradeoffs. Need for indoor heating has a lot of stretch. In Europe, there's a ton of stretch on personal mobility too, since there are viable alternatives for the car. It was obvious from your earlier stupendously cringeworthy "Ten years from now, Europeans will drive electric (if they'll drive at all)" comment that you are of that peculiar species known as Homo redditus, the type that believes in everything you read in /r/politics and /r/worldnews, but the above reinforces it. (No, Virginia, Europe isn't some sort of magical wonderland of public transportation everywhere from Ireland to Estonia to Greece to Portugal. Be sure to tell the rural Spaniard or Frenchman or Irishman how he no longer needs an automobile or two, and to the people commuting into Frankfurt or Milan or Antwerp by car that there's no reason why they've been doing so all this time so need to stop ASAP.) >Europe can weather this crunch a lot better than America. This is so, so wrong in every single way that it's hard to believe so much wrongness can be contained in ten words.
lm28469 4y ago
It's mostly exaggerated. Some of my friends are already complaining because they won't be able to keep their flat at 25c in winter... I haven't used heating in 5 years in Berlin, at the coldest it was 17c in my flat, having grown in the mountain that's my comfy zone People want to live like kings for 50 euros a month, reality is catching up
- thehappypm 4y ago
  Sounds like you were mooching off the heat of nearby flats :)

The problem they're having is with natural gas, which they need for winter heating

KingOfCoders 4y ago

I gladly don't need natural gas for winter heating.

Jochim 4y ago

Petroleum prices also spiked, probably related to the war in Ukraine but I'm not 100% sure.

brundolf 4y ago
Yeah but my understanding is natural gas is the real driver of crisis for Europe right now, esp Germany, but Americans sometimes misunderstand when it's referred to as just "gas"
- Jochim 4y ago
  Yeah, that's fair enough. Sadly the natural gas shortage affects more than just winter heating, in the UK at least it's one of the main factors of the price of electricity. All of this has had a knock on effect that goes way beyond just the price of heating.
wiredfool 4y ago
Petrol/Diesel is flat to slightly down from a few months back, though it's _way_ higher than it was pre-ukraine. In Ireland: ~1.50/l for Diesel -> 2.20, now back down to 1.89 or so. In northern Europe, I saw anywhere between 1.79 and 2.26 late July early Aug. (Including 2.26 and 2.02 on opposite sides of the motorway)
lm28469 4y ago
Sure, nothing to do with megacorps absolutely milking the market.... https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/teaser/27887.jpeg https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/teaser/27887.jpeg

trgn 4y ago

It's the difference between heating your house to 72 and walking around barefoot, or 68 and wearing a sweater and wearing loafers. Those are the tradeoffs. Need for indoor heating has a lot of stretch. In Europe, there's a ton of stretch on personal mobility too, since there are viable alternatives for the car. Europe can weather this crunch a lot better than America.

TMWNN 4y ago
>It's the difference between heating your house to 72 and walking around barefoot, or 68 and wearing a sweater and wearing loafers. Someone who actually believes the "just put a sweater on" rhetoric that even those who tried foisting it on the public quickly gave up on. Be sure to give your sage advice to the Germans and other Europeans who are this winter going to see gas bills rise 200-1000%. We've had, in the past month, a German minister stating that becoming dependent on Russian gas was a "grievous mistake", and that his country is begging for turbines from Canadian custody "with a heavy heart". His government stating that entire industries might "collapse". Rationing of gas announced. Local municipalities planning warm buildings that those without heat in their homes can visit during the winter. These are just a few of the many things that have happened that are part of the greatest German (and thus European) catastrophe in 80 years. >Those are the tradeoffs. Need for indoor heating has a lot of stretch. In Europe, there's a ton of stretch on personal mobility too, since there are viable alternatives for the car. It was obvious from your earlier stupendously cringeworthy "Ten years from now, Europeans will drive electric (if they'll drive at all)" comment that you are of that peculiar species known as Homo redditus, the type that believes in everything you read in /r/politics and /r/worldnews, but the above reinforces it. (No, Virginia, Europe isn't some sort of magical wonderland of public transportation everywhere from Ireland to Estonia to Greece to Portugal. Be sure to tell the rural Spaniard or Frenchman or Irishman how he no longer needs an automobile or two, and to the people commuting into Frankfurt or Milan or Antwerp by car that there's no reason why they've been doing so all this time so need to stop ASAP.) >Europe can weather this crunch a lot better than America. This is so, so wrong in every single way that it's hard to believe so much wrongness can be contained in ten words.

lm28469 4y ago

It's mostly exaggerated. Some of my friends are already complaining because they won't be able to keep their flat at 25c in winter... I haven't used heating in 5 years in Berlin, at the coldest it was 17c in my flat, having grown in the mountain that's my comfy zone People want to live like kings for 50 euros a month, reality is catching up

thehappypm 4y ago
Sounds like you were mooching off the heat of nearby flats :)