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We have a corrupt government and media that itch each others back. There's still a complete lack of urgency. A potential new prime minister trying to defend pr

We have a corrupt government and media that itch each others back. There's still a complete lack of urgency. A potential new prime minister trying to defend profits of energy companies recently on TV just shows you the Modus operandi of the political class. It might push people to riots in the streets.

mellosouls 4y ago
Didn't happen with the bankers 10 years ago, I'm not sure that normal people have the inclination or fight.
- blowski 4y ago
  Some would say they rioted in the ballot box, via the Brexit referendum.
- yourusername 4y ago
  While a lot of people lost money during the banking crisis a lot of people were unaffected. The current inflation crisis means the bottom quartile will probably start to go hungry and be unable to afford to heat their homes. It's not like those people were saving 20-30% of their income 2 years ago and they're now spending 20% of their income on heating and their groceries got 20% more expensive and fuel (for driving) increased by 50-100%.
- sudden_dystopia 4y ago
  True but that was “just” a bad recession, but we never actually recovered from it. Now we are the brink of global war, reeling from Covid supply chain issues, and stagflation all on top of a world economy that has been propped up by central banks for the past decade while simultaneously exploding the money supply and essentially making internet rates zero. This is the world on modern monetary theory. Not even once.
- mattmanser 4y ago
  Most UK cities had big occupy protests, we had one in my city in the UK for quite a while.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    They collectively did far less to the financial industry than some people on the internet buying Gamestop.
ninjin 4y ago
Best of luck. Although I would state that the English Civil War in many ways could be argued to be a mislabelled real revolution [1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Civil_War#Whig_and_Marxist_views https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Civil_War#Whig_and_Mar... Edit: For context, the parent previously stated that this perhaps may become the first real revolution in Britain.
gyre007 4y ago
I don’t believe Brits are capable of revolting against this. They did hit the streets in anti-lockdown protests though, which is ironic because in the grand scheme of things that (lockdown) was temporary, but this inflation wave will be madly felt for quite long.
- pydry 4y ago
  The lockdown protests kind or proved to me that while english people are getting angrier overall, they seem to be getting progressively dumber about how they lash out. I could foresee riots again like the 2010 ones but I doubt it'd do to much change other than lead to some imprisoned people and property damage. So, unlike, say, the poll tax riots i doubt itll lead to any meaningful British/English political changes. It may add fuel to Northern Ireland joining Ireland/Scottish independence though.
- wesleywt 4y ago
  The anti-lock down protesters were a fringe group. An energy crisis is different matter. It will not only affect the lunatic fringe, this will affect everyone.
  - throwawaythekey 4y ago
    It would be an interesting case study for leaders around the world - confiscate a huge chunk of liberty and you will have a fringe protest, lose a few thousand pounds from chequebooks and you will have blood.
    - happymellon 4y ago
      I don't think anyone I know here in the UK saw a temporary lockdown as "confiscating a huge chunk of liberty". On the contrary, we recognise that everyone has a duty to keep everyone else safe, which was especially true during the early pandemic times, when it seemed like it was quite dangerous and Americans ignored it and died in the tens of thousands. It was when it was observed that we were not in it together that heads rolled. And it looks like our observations panned out, as we do not have any lockdowns anymore and I don't know of anyone who is still getting sick in a bad way.
ojhughes 4y ago
The only thing that would cause us Brit’s to riot is a change to caravanning laws
rob_c 4y ago
- happymellon 4y ago
  Which basic human right did they take away? I've been able to go out, see anyone I've wanted to, write whatever I want. I can even be guaranteed to drink the tap water regardless of where I am in the country. If I accidentally wander off a path I won't get shot. If I have the wrong coloured skin it can still be dangerous to be in the wrong neighborhoods in the USA. American have a very strange perspective on "basic human rights". Have you been watching too much Fox and think that there are "no go zones" in London or other batshit insane things?
  - slater 4y ago
  - rob_c 4y ago
    For the record, I'm very much anti Tory, very much a promoter of vaccines which work and very much a promoter of being able to understand and question statistical analyses in a consistent way. People can place words in my mouth but they are not true. I'm an educated individual with a strong understanding of statistical analysis, scientific modelling and was asked to give advice of the validity of the tools used to construct report 9. I reported them to be as broken as I feared with evidence and then the action on this was strictly political in the UK after advising govt committees. The basic right of not getting arrested for traveling in the British countryside or the ability to go and earn a living without government intrusion in all factors had been removed for several months and the thought of being able to congregate in a small group to simply discuss something like the works of Shakespeare was for a time effectively illegal. The fact these rights were restored has nothing to do with them being removed en masse. I'll note whilst still allowing private flights into the country without restriction as long as you were bringing in than £50k to the country(!). I'm not talking about the USA. Nor do I care to here. I'm not talking about any political party here, again nor do I care to. I'm not taking about anti scientific rigour or scientific discussion here, not do I care to. And nor do I care to discuss statistical illiteracy in any way shape or form.
bko 4y ago
From the article: >The investment bank predicted that the country’s retail energy price cap — which limits how much households pay for heating and electricity — would be raised to £4,567 in January and then £5,816 in April, compared with the current level of £1,971 a year.... Nabarro said Citi’s new forecasts had taken account of a 25 per cent increase in wholesale gas prices last week and a 7 per cent rise in wholesale electricity prices. No price controls can account for the fact that energy prices are up a lot globally. Pretending they're not up and keeping the price cap in place is worse. First it doesn't discourage energy usage. That's a big purpose of prices in a market economy. Second, when something is priced below market price it inevitably leads to shortages. This will have to be addressed through some kind of political action that will be sub-optimal. Rather than a young person seeing higher energy prices and adjusting their AC, while an old person may choose to pay the higher price, you'll see ham-fisted conservation measures. If you're against having the customer's price reflect more closely the market price, you have to propose an alternative. Do you want people to use less? If so, how do you do that? Or do you want people to continue using the same, pretend the high prices don't exist and just pay for it through taxes? Either way, the money will have to come from somewhere or rationing will have to take place. There's no free lunch
- minimaul 4y ago
  This is well beyond ‘market prices will fix this’ - market prices will mean a very large chunk of the population will literally be unable to afford to cook dinner and heat their houses. We already don’t have AC in summers which are growing more and more extreme (regularly over 90F, and sometimes over 100F) - there’s nothing there to turn off. Edit: Big power retail companies in the UK are making record profits, and so is generation. Tax that aggressively to start with.
  - gruez 4y ago
    > This is well beyond ‘market prices will fix this’ - market prices will mean a very large chunk of the population will literally be unable to afford to cook dinner and heat their houses. Advocating for "market prices" doesn't necessarily mean letting everyone fend for themselves. You can provide grants/subsidies for the poor, while still keeping market prices so everyone is still incentivized to save as much energy as possible. >Edit: Big power retail companies in the UK are making record profits, and so is generation. Sounds like a great way to discourage investment and make future shortages even worse. The energy industry runs on a boom-bust cycle. Why bother investing for the boom years (ie. right now) when you know the government is going to seize all your profits?
jollyllama 4y ago
The ever-prepared Swiss are preparing for the possibility of riots this winter. https://www.blick.ch/politik/oberster-polizeidirektor-fredy-faessler-63-besorgt-ueber-moeglichen-stromausfall-es-ist-denkbar-dass-die-bevoelkerung-rebelliert-id17804669.html https://www.blick.ch/politik/oberster-polizeidirektor-fredy-... Hyperinflation and energy crisis are here.

mellosouls 4y ago

Didn't happen with the bankers 10 years ago, I'm not sure that normal people have the inclination or fight.

blowski 4y ago
Some would say they rioted in the ballot box, via the Brexit referendum.
yourusername 4y ago
While a lot of people lost money during the banking crisis a lot of people were unaffected. The current inflation crisis means the bottom quartile will probably start to go hungry and be unable to afford to heat their homes. It's not like those people were saving 20-30% of their income 2 years ago and they're now spending 20% of their income on heating and their groceries got 20% more expensive and fuel (for driving) increased by 50-100%.
sudden_dystopia 4y ago
True but that was “just” a bad recession, but we never actually recovered from it. Now we are the brink of global war, reeling from Covid supply chain issues, and stagflation all on top of a world economy that has been propped up by central banks for the past decade while simultaneously exploding the money supply and essentially making internet rates zero. This is the world on modern monetary theory. Not even once.
mattmanser 4y ago
Most UK cities had big occupy protests, we had one in my city in the UK for quite a while.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  They collectively did far less to the financial industry than some people on the internet buying Gamestop.

ninjin 4y ago

Best of luck. Although I would state that the English Civil War in many ways could be argued to be a mislabelled real revolution [1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Civil_War#Whig_and_Marxist_views https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Civil_War#Whig_and_Mar... Edit: For context, the parent previously stated that this perhaps may become the first real revolution in Britain.

gyre007 4y ago

I don’t believe Brits are capable of revolting against this. They did hit the streets in anti-lockdown protests though, which is ironic because in the grand scheme of things that (lockdown) was temporary, but this inflation wave will be madly felt for quite long.

pydry 4y ago
The lockdown protests kind or proved to me that while english people are getting angrier overall, they seem to be getting progressively dumber about how they lash out. I could foresee riots again like the 2010 ones but I doubt it'd do to much change other than lead to some imprisoned people and property damage. So, unlike, say, the poll tax riots i doubt itll lead to any meaningful British/English political changes. It may add fuel to Northern Ireland joining Ireland/Scottish independence though.
wesleywt 4y ago
The anti-lock down protesters were a fringe group. An energy crisis is different matter. It will not only affect the lunatic fringe, this will affect everyone.
- throwawaythekey 4y ago
  It would be an interesting case study for leaders around the world - confiscate a huge chunk of liberty and you will have a fringe protest, lose a few thousand pounds from chequebooks and you will have blood.
  - happymellon 4y ago
    I don't think anyone I know here in the UK saw a temporary lockdown as "confiscating a huge chunk of liberty". On the contrary, we recognise that everyone has a duty to keep everyone else safe, which was especially true during the early pandemic times, when it seemed like it was quite dangerous and Americans ignored it and died in the tens of thousands. It was when it was observed that we were not in it together that heads rolled. And it looks like our observations panned out, as we do not have any lockdowns anymore and I don't know of anyone who is still getting sick in a bad way.

ojhughes 4y ago

The only thing that would cause us Brit’s to riot is a change to caravanning laws

rob_c 4y ago

happymellon 4y ago
Which basic human right did they take away? I've been able to go out, see anyone I've wanted to, write whatever I want. I can even be guaranteed to drink the tap water regardless of where I am in the country. If I accidentally wander off a path I won't get shot. If I have the wrong coloured skin it can still be dangerous to be in the wrong neighborhoods in the USA. American have a very strange perspective on "basic human rights". Have you been watching too much Fox and think that there are "no go zones" in London or other batshit insane things?
- slater 4y ago
- rob_c 4y ago
  For the record, I'm very much anti Tory, very much a promoter of vaccines which work and very much a promoter of being able to understand and question statistical analyses in a consistent way. People can place words in my mouth but they are not true. I'm an educated individual with a strong understanding of statistical analysis, scientific modelling and was asked to give advice of the validity of the tools used to construct report 9. I reported them to be as broken as I feared with evidence and then the action on this was strictly political in the UK after advising govt committees. The basic right of not getting arrested for traveling in the British countryside or the ability to go and earn a living without government intrusion in all factors had been removed for several months and the thought of being able to congregate in a small group to simply discuss something like the works of Shakespeare was for a time effectively illegal. The fact these rights were restored has nothing to do with them being removed en masse. I'll note whilst still allowing private flights into the country without restriction as long as you were bringing in than £50k to the country(!). I'm not talking about the USA. Nor do I care to here. I'm not talking about any political party here, again nor do I care to. I'm not taking about anti scientific rigour or scientific discussion here, not do I care to. And nor do I care to discuss statistical illiteracy in any way shape or form.

bko 4y ago

From the article: >The investment bank predicted that the country’s retail energy price cap — which limits how much households pay for heating and electricity — would be raised to £4,567 in January and then £5,816 in April, compared with the current level of £1,971 a year.... Nabarro said Citi’s new forecasts had taken account of a 25 per cent increase in wholesale gas prices last week and a 7 per cent rise in wholesale electricity prices. No price controls can account for the fact that energy prices are up a lot globally. Pretending they're not up and keeping the price cap in place is worse. First it doesn't discourage energy usage. That's a big purpose of prices in a market economy. Second, when something is priced below market price it inevitably leads to shortages. This will have to be addressed through some kind of political action that will be sub-optimal. Rather than a young person seeing higher energy prices and adjusting their AC, while an old person may choose to pay the higher price, you'll see ham-fisted conservation measures. If you're against having the customer's price reflect more closely the market price, you have to propose an alternative. Do you want people to use less? If so, how do you do that? Or do you want people to continue using the same, pretend the high prices don't exist and just pay for it through taxes? Either way, the money will have to come from somewhere or rationing will have to take place. There's no free lunch

minimaul 4y ago
This is well beyond ‘market prices will fix this’ - market prices will mean a very large chunk of the population will literally be unable to afford to cook dinner and heat their houses. We already don’t have AC in summers which are growing more and more extreme (regularly over 90F, and sometimes over 100F) - there’s nothing there to turn off. Edit: Big power retail companies in the UK are making record profits, and so is generation. Tax that aggressively to start with.
- gruez 4y ago
  > This is well beyond ‘market prices will fix this’ - market prices will mean a very large chunk of the population will literally be unable to afford to cook dinner and heat their houses. Advocating for "market prices" doesn't necessarily mean letting everyone fend for themselves. You can provide grants/subsidies for the poor, while still keeping market prices so everyone is still incentivized to save as much energy as possible. >Edit: Big power retail companies in the UK are making record profits, and so is generation. Sounds like a great way to discourage investment and make future shortages even worse. The energy industry runs on a boom-bust cycle. Why bother investing for the boom years (ie. right now) when you know the government is going to seize all your profits?

jollyllama 4y ago

The ever-prepared Swiss are preparing for the possibility of riots this winter. https://www.blick.ch/politik/oberster-polizeidirektor-fredy-faessler-63-besorgt-ueber-moeglichen-stromausfall-es-ist-denkbar-dass-die-bevoelkerung-rebelliert-id17804669.html https://www.blick.ch/politik/oberster-polizeidirektor-fredy-... Hyperinflation and energy crisis are here.