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I sometimes wonder how much US tech productivity is built on a foundation of ADHD med over-prescription. Discussion of taking stimulants is pervasive among the

I sometimes wonder how much US tech productivity is built on a foundation of ADHD med over-prescription. Discussion of taking stimulants is pervasive among the tech Twitterati, to a really depressing extent. At this point though I'm not sure where the right balance is - the US healthcare model (you are a customer) probably drives excessive medication as much as cultural pressures, but at the same time the UK model (you are a patient, but not a paying customer) drives resistance to prescribing medication where it might actually be beneficial.

throw__away7391 4y ago
> I sometimes wonder how much US tech productivity is built on a foundation of ADHD med over-prescription. Probably somewhere between zero and a negative impact. I tried this briefly some years ago after hearing so much about productivity gains, then tried again once or twice after that. I quickly realized that while in the initial afternoon of the first use you may see some benefits, this come at the expense of later productivity. I'd say it is not too different from the impact of caffeine on sleep in this regard. People just like taking these meds, they like the high it gives and the chemical induced "feeling productive" rush makes it easy to tell yourself a nice story about why you're taking them and what they're doing for you, but I don't think they're actually producing any real productivity gains.
- chrisweekly 4y ago
  That's some broad brush of ignorance you're painting with; "they like the high it gives" is laughable.
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    https://www.rxlist.com/desoxyn-drug.htm https://www.rxlist.com/desoxyn-drug.htm Take a look at the generic name for desoxyn. I mean, if I can get it from a doctor, I'll give it a shot.
  - brailsafe 4y ago
    That's why they used a throwaway. No doubt, some people will get adderall or w/e for that reason, perhaps, but all people like the feeling of being productive; people with a real issue just very rarely feel that unless they slow down the giant double-lane roundabout of their thoughts.
  - throw__away7391 4y ago
    That's pretty ridiculous thing for you to say as the post I was replying quite clearly implied using the phrase "over-prescription" they were discussing abuse of a drug for productivity. That part wasn't really in question, my observation and experience is merely that abusing ADHD drugs does not actually have this effect. Unless you're actually arguing in favor of taking performance enhancing drugs for the purpose of boosting productivity, which based on your reaction I'd guess that you are.
neffy 4y ago
Honestly, until we have actual Star Trek level medicine capabilities, I will take the NHS approach, loosely we want to cure you and never see you again, over the USA, again loosely, the patient is a source of income for all involved, so lets medicate and surgeon as much as possible, any day of the week. The ultimate problem is that our current levels of medical knowledge simply aren't good enough, so the US approach often does more harm than good - and I would gently suggest that that shows up very clearly in US life expectancy figures.
- giobox 4y ago
  The problem with overly simplistic comparisons like these is they gloss over real problems on both sides. The average life expectancy in Scotland for example is just ~61 - the UK average is a third more! So it's clearly more than just "hey the NHS is great" at play here. It gets even worse when you drill into northern cities in the UK - Glasgow clocks in at a shocking 54.
  - greatwave1 4y ago
    Scotland's life expectancy at birth is ~78 [1]. Glasdow's life expectancy at birth is ~74 [2]. You're likely confusing life expectancy with "healthy life expectancy", which is a different metric that measures the number of years a person can be expected to live in good health. [1] https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/life-expectancy/life-expectancy-in-scotland/2018-2020 https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_effect
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Yes, the incentives in medicine are all wrong. In government medicine, the incentives are to keep you away from the doctor, better to let you die than come back repeatedly. In for-profit medicine, the incentives are to keep you coming back repeatedly until you have exhausted your assets, then let you die.
- riversflow 4y ago
  > US life expectancy figures. Pretty sure that's our terrible diet and dangerous and slothful car culture.
t_mann 4y ago
> I sometimes wonder how much US tech productivity is built on a foundation of ADHD med over-prescription. Can you clarify - do you mean that the types of drugs used to treat ADHD make US tech workers more productive, or do you mean that it they increase the use of SV-style tech products? Somewhat contentious take either way.
- cloudymeatballs 4y ago
  I was thinking of the former - basically a bunch of people who would be well within the bounds of "normal" even if unmedicated, but who have easy access to powerful stimulants and thrive off the high-productivity buzz. Looking at the rates of ADHD diagnosis worldwide, it is clear that someone is getting it wrong - but that brings us to the deeper discussion of how far capitalism should be allowed to dominate; i.e. whether having large numbers of drugged-up but productive citizens is actually an OK situation for a country to be in.
  - t_mann 4y ago
    Ok, thanks for clarifying. Are there any studies actually showing productivity boosts in healthy adults from ADHD medications? I've heard about it, but it seemed more anecdotal, and it's not uncommon for drug users to rationalize their consumption in some way, eg based on their first experience.
    - tetromino_ 4y ago
      Hitler's Wehrmacht did some studies (on unwitting human subjects, naturally), and concluded that as far as waging illegal war is concerned, methamphetamine is great for productivity: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/methamphetamine-dictatorship-hitler-nazi-germany-and-drug-abuse https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/methamphetamine-dictat... U.S. Air Force, being tasked with a somewhat similar job, came to similar conclusions: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7661838/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7661838/
    - boppo1 4y ago
      I am diagnosed and was prescribed for ~3 years. I am honest with myself about it. I don't take it anymore because I wound up in a pattern of abuse. I don't have a study, but the answer is yes, it definitely can boost productivity. But overall, a huge number of people take it for the high.

throw__away7391 4y ago

> I sometimes wonder how much US tech productivity is built on a foundation of ADHD med over-prescription. Probably somewhere between zero and a negative impact. I tried this briefly some years ago after hearing so much about productivity gains, then tried again once or twice after that. I quickly realized that while in the initial afternoon of the first use you may see some benefits, this come at the expense of later productivity. I'd say it is not too different from the impact of caffeine on sleep in this regard. People just like taking these meds, they like the high it gives and the chemical induced "feeling productive" rush makes it easy to tell yourself a nice story about why you're taking them and what they're doing for you, but I don't think they're actually producing any real productivity gains.

chrisweekly 4y ago
That's some broad brush of ignorance you're painting with; "they like the high it gives" is laughable.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  https://www.rxlist.com/desoxyn-drug.htm https://www.rxlist.com/desoxyn-drug.htm Take a look at the generic name for desoxyn. I mean, if I can get it from a doctor, I'll give it a shot.
- brailsafe 4y ago
  That's why they used a throwaway. No doubt, some people will get adderall or w/e for that reason, perhaps, but all people like the feeling of being productive; people with a real issue just very rarely feel that unless they slow down the giant double-lane roundabout of their thoughts.
- throw__away7391 4y ago
  That's pretty ridiculous thing for you to say as the post I was replying quite clearly implied using the phrase "over-prescription" they were discussing abuse of a drug for productivity. That part wasn't really in question, my observation and experience is merely that abusing ADHD drugs does not actually have this effect. Unless you're actually arguing in favor of taking performance enhancing drugs for the purpose of boosting productivity, which based on your reaction I'd guess that you are.

neffy 4y ago

Honestly, until we have actual Star Trek level medicine capabilities, I will take the NHS approach, loosely we want to cure you and never see you again, over the USA, again loosely, the patient is a source of income for all involved, so lets medicate and surgeon as much as possible, any day of the week. The ultimate problem is that our current levels of medical knowledge simply aren't good enough, so the US approach often does more harm than good - and I would gently suggest that that shows up very clearly in US life expectancy figures.

giobox 4y ago
The problem with overly simplistic comparisons like these is they gloss over real problems on both sides. The average life expectancy in Scotland for example is just ~61 - the UK average is a third more! So it's clearly more than just "hey the NHS is great" at play here. It gets even worse when you drill into northern cities in the UK - Glasgow clocks in at a shocking 54.
- greatwave1 4y ago
  Scotland's life expectancy at birth is ~78 [1]. Glasdow's life expectancy at birth is ~74 [2]. You're likely confusing life expectancy with "healthy life expectancy", which is a different metric that measures the number of years a person can be expected to live in good health. [1] https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/life-expectancy/life-expectancy-in-scotland/2018-2020 https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_effect
SoftTalker 4y ago
Yes, the incentives in medicine are all wrong. In government medicine, the incentives are to keep you away from the doctor, better to let you die than come back repeatedly. In for-profit medicine, the incentives are to keep you coming back repeatedly until you have exhausted your assets, then let you die.
riversflow 4y ago
> US life expectancy figures. Pretty sure that's our terrible diet and dangerous and slothful car culture.

t_mann 4y ago

> I sometimes wonder how much US tech productivity is built on a foundation of ADHD med over-prescription. Can you clarify - do you mean that the types of drugs used to treat ADHD make US tech workers more productive, or do you mean that it they increase the use of SV-style tech products? Somewhat contentious take either way.

cloudymeatballs 4y ago
I was thinking of the former - basically a bunch of people who would be well within the bounds of "normal" even if unmedicated, but who have easy access to powerful stimulants and thrive off the high-productivity buzz. Looking at the rates of ADHD diagnosis worldwide, it is clear that someone is getting it wrong - but that brings us to the deeper discussion of how far capitalism should be allowed to dominate; i.e. whether having large numbers of drugged-up but productive citizens is actually an OK situation for a country to be in.
- t_mann 4y ago
  Ok, thanks for clarifying. Are there any studies actually showing productivity boosts in healthy adults from ADHD medications? I've heard about it, but it seemed more anecdotal, and it's not uncommon for drug users to rationalize their consumption in some way, eg based on their first experience.
  - tetromino_ 4y ago
    Hitler's Wehrmacht did some studies (on unwitting human subjects, naturally), and concluded that as far as waging illegal war is concerned, methamphetamine is great for productivity: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/methamphetamine-dictatorship-hitler-nazi-germany-and-drug-abuse https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/methamphetamine-dictat... U.S. Air Force, being tasked with a somewhat similar job, came to similar conclusions: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7661838/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7661838/
  - boppo1 4y ago
    I am diagnosed and was prescribed for ~3 years. I am honest with myself about it. I don't take it anymore because I wound up in a pattern of abuse. I don't have a study, but the answer is yes, it definitely can boost productivity. But overall, a huge number of people take it for the high.