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I don't think it's a strange critique point - dependencies are a necessary evil, but still an evil. Minimizing dependencies is always a good thing, and I can't

I don't think it's a strange critique point - dependencies are a necessary evil, but still an evil. Minimizing dependencies is always a good thing, and I can't think of a scenario where maximizing dependencies would be desirable, given the same amount of features.

crabbygrabby 4y ago
It's a pretty weird critique, llvm is becoming ubiquitous for these tasks. Can rattle off probably a dozen programming languages using it and no one is grousing...
- teddyh 4y ago
  Those programming languages are presumably not as minimal, and give features in exchange for this large dependency.
stinkytaco 4y ago
> dependencies are a necessary evil, but still an evil I'm curious about this assertation. I've also heard that "do one thing and do it well" is a desirable goal and one should offload tasks to other pieces that specialize in that task (e.g. don't write your own crypto, use existing libraries), is there something that makes a programming language different?
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  Compile time/runtime dependencies often increase maintainence needs and resource usage. In the context of programming languages, dependencies are a property of a programming language implementation. LLVM is not a small system, yet PicoLisp is a small language, which is why it might be considered a heavy dependency. There are scenarios like embedded where having a tiny implementation with little dependency pays off. Ordinary programs can be very easily maintained by using only the language's standard library, as standard library is often maintained substantially longer than many third-party libraries.
  - freemint 4y ago
    PicoLisp does not depend on LLVM. The PicoLisp implementation pil21 uses LLVM in it's build process of the interpreter. There are multiple implementation of PicoLisp for different use cases. miniPicoLisp targets embedded. pil64 uses some meta assembly that can has an x86_64 and ARM64 port. pil32 is implemented in just C + Variable length arrays. Ersatz runs on the JVM.

crabbygrabby 4y ago

It's a pretty weird critique, llvm is becoming ubiquitous for these tasks. Can rattle off probably a dozen programming languages using it and no one is grousing...

teddyh 4y ago
Those programming languages are presumably not as minimal, and give features in exchange for this large dependency.

stinkytaco 4y ago

> dependencies are a necessary evil, but still an evil I'm curious about this assertation. I've also heard that "do one thing and do it well" is a desirable goal and one should offload tasks to other pieces that specialize in that task (e.g. don't write your own crypto, use existing libraries), is there something that makes a programming language different?

paskozdilar 4y ago
Compile time/runtime dependencies often increase maintainence needs and resource usage. In the context of programming languages, dependencies are a property of a programming language implementation. LLVM is not a small system, yet PicoLisp is a small language, which is why it might be considered a heavy dependency. There are scenarios like embedded where having a tiny implementation with little dependency pays off. Ordinary programs can be very easily maintained by using only the language's standard library, as standard library is often maintained substantially longer than many third-party libraries.
- freemint 4y ago
  PicoLisp does not depend on LLVM. The PicoLisp implementation pil21 uses LLVM in it's build process of the interpreter. There are multiple implementation of PicoLisp for different use cases. miniPicoLisp targets embedded. pil64 uses some meta assembly that can has an x86_64 and ARM64 port. pil32 is implemented in just C + Variable length arrays. Ersatz runs on the JVM.