6 ms·

It's like looking both ways when crossing the road despite the light telling you that you can go. Sure you have right of way and if a car hits you, it's their f

by doix 4y ago

It's like looking both ways when crossing the road despite the light telling you that you can go. Sure you have right of way and if a car hits you, it's their fault. But at the end of the day, you are the one getting hit by the car. Google is at fault for how they handled it, but the parents comment is still good advice for anyone reading this thread.

jquery 4y ago
It sounds more like they looked both ways, they saw a car, they made eye contact and the driver gestured for them to cross, then when they began to cross the driver ran them over. And now they’re getting advice to never cross streets as a pedestrian. Sound advice can also be victim blaming.
- Nebasuke 4y ago
  I got hit by a car in a situation similar to this. They made eye contact (I thought), were slowing down, and still hit me anyway by accelerating, despite me having the right of way on a bike. Turns out it was the first time they used the car, 1 minute into the drive and their focus was somewhere else. I would say the advice here is, wait until the car is basically stopped before you cross the street rather than trusting it will because you think all the signs say they will. I do think this is solid advice for the production systems as well. All the signs can point to yes, but making extra assurances to avoid the bad path is valid for something critical like your production systems (or your life).
  - black_puppydog 4y ago
    > wait until the car is basically stopped you mean like an email literally saying they acknowledge the situation and won't suspend your account?
    - Nebasuke 4y ago
      I think an email from support is more like "confirmation that they checked whether the car has seen me". I'm not sure how successfully you've dealt with support with companies, but I have almost never been able to rely on the promises of a support agent, as they are simply not the ones actually making the decisions (in this case on whether your account gets suspended or not).
      - scrollaway 4y ago
        A support agent is supposed to speak on behalf of the company. If they say "your account will not be suspended for this issue", and the company then suspends the account for that issue, that should be grounds to sue.
        Nebasuke 4y ago
        Sure, I don't disagree and it's silly/illegal when it happens, but this doesn't mean you can't protect yourself (sometimes without much more effort) to prevent damage or even just more effort. I think most people have spoken to a support agent who said they'd cancel a phone/broadband contract, or worse, had to do something slightly off script and then confirmed that the agreed XYZ would happen? Regularly XYZ does not happen, or not exactly in the way you agreed. They cancel your broadband too late, or your internet starts a few weeks too late, etc. You can try to get compensation, or even sue, but some of the damage has already been done at that point. While this okay for temporarily overpaying broadband, this is probably not the case for a company's main production system, where the risk is very high. The company might not even survive to sue.
      - black_puppydog 4y ago
        sounds more like you want a written and signed letter from the driver that they don't intend to restart the car, co-signed by their spouse
    - shyn3 4y ago
      In my experience, when dealing with vendors having an account manager can fix these kind of problems and prevent them. Most places outsource their support to global teams don't have access. If you have an AM , in many places, they receive the same notice you receive, also they will personally send it and address it to you with a reminder. They also have a lot more sway as the sales side of every company has the power so they can get around all the process issues. As the other commenter posted above, if you can have an account manager where you have critical services, it will provide you safety at the cost of a higher spend or minimum spending amounts. Edit: Had about $1mm in GCP spend and couldn't open a ticket to get windows running properly. It took a week to find the AM and a day after he had it fixed.
      - omniglottal 4y ago
        Paying extra is not a viable solution for not receiving what one has already paid for.
- ix101 4y ago
  If a driver gestures to cross and hits the brakes and the brakes don't work it's hard to blame the driver if they didn't design the car. Just saying it might be more of a technical issue and the behaviour probably wasn't normal/expected.
  - omniglottal 4y ago
    In this situation, the driver is at fault and everyone can sue the manufacturer/mechanic. Back to Google: they are at fault and responsible for damages, period. What benefit is there in differentiating a company from an employee authorized to communicate and act on their behalf?
bastawhiz 4y ago
How are you supposed to trust a company who told you they wouldn't screw you because of their own error, then screwed you anyway? Having a relationship with them doesn't matter if they still can't be trusted to do business. The type of payment method you use is not a factor that plays into whether you can trust your vendor.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  As I mentioned elsewhere, this is a sign of imbalance in the relationship. If you are too small to matter to Google or even to your account rep at Google, then you should not be using them.
- mcv 4y ago
  I don't think you can. My takeaway from this discussion is definitely that GCP is only suitable for toy projects, and not for serious production stuff that requires continuity.
  - mhoad 4y ago
    This is a fundamentally unserious point unless you want to add more qualifiers. I’m pointing to this as evidence https://cloud.google.com/customers https://cloud.google.com/customers I feel like a lot of the problems that people run into with GCP are avoided with two main components. Number one you should look seriously at the “enterprise” designation for different products and services if you are looking for long term stability and guarantees about the future (details: https://cloud.google.com/apis/docs/resources/enterprise-apis https://cloud.google.com/apis/docs/resources/enterprise-apis) and secondly you need to buy actual customer support as an add on if you want to avoid the “I had to hit the front page of HN to actually speak to someone” scenario https://cloud.google.com/support https://cloud.google.com/support
    - acheron 4y ago
    - asojfdowgh 4y ago
latexr 4y ago
According to the OP, Google assured them a suspension wouldn’t happen then did it anyway. In the car analogy it’s akin to looking the driver in the eyes and them signalling to you it’s safe to cross, only to hit the gas and run you over as you do. No amount of looking both ways before crossing would have saved you.

by doix 4y ago

jquery 4y ago

It sounds more like they looked both ways, they saw a car, they made eye contact and the driver gestured for them to cross, then when they began to cross the driver ran them over. And now they’re getting advice to never cross streets as a pedestrian. Sound advice can also be victim blaming.

Nebasuke 4y ago
I got hit by a car in a situation similar to this. They made eye contact (I thought), were slowing down, and still hit me anyway by accelerating, despite me having the right of way on a bike. Turns out it was the first time they used the car, 1 minute into the drive and their focus was somewhere else. I would say the advice here is, wait until the car is basically stopped before you cross the street rather than trusting it will because you think all the signs say they will. I do think this is solid advice for the production systems as well. All the signs can point to yes, but making extra assurances to avoid the bad path is valid for something critical like your production systems (or your life).
- black_puppydog 4y ago
  > wait until the car is basically stopped you mean like an email literally saying they acknowledge the situation and won't suspend your account?
  - Nebasuke 4y ago
    I think an email from support is more like "confirmation that they checked whether the car has seen me". I'm not sure how successfully you've dealt with support with companies, but I have almost never been able to rely on the promises of a support agent, as they are simply not the ones actually making the decisions (in this case on whether your account gets suspended or not).
    - scrollaway 4y ago
      A support agent is supposed to speak on behalf of the company. If they say "your account will not be suspended for this issue", and the company then suspends the account for that issue, that should be grounds to sue.
      - Nebasuke 4y ago
        Sure, I don't disagree and it's silly/illegal when it happens, but this doesn't mean you can't protect yourself (sometimes without much more effort) to prevent damage or even just more effort. I think most people have spoken to a support agent who said they'd cancel a phone/broadband contract, or worse, had to do something slightly off script and then confirmed that the agreed XYZ would happen? Regularly XYZ does not happen, or not exactly in the way you agreed. They cancel your broadband too late, or your internet starts a few weeks too late, etc. You can try to get compensation, or even sue, but some of the damage has already been done at that point. While this okay for temporarily overpaying broadband, this is probably not the case for a company's main production system, where the risk is very high. The company might not even survive to sue.
    - black_puppydog 4y ago
      sounds more like you want a written and signed letter from the driver that they don't intend to restart the car, co-signed by their spouse
  - shyn3 4y ago
    In my experience, when dealing with vendors having an account manager can fix these kind of problems and prevent them. Most places outsource their support to global teams don't have access. If you have an AM , in many places, they receive the same notice you receive, also they will personally send it and address it to you with a reminder. They also have a lot more sway as the sales side of every company has the power so they can get around all the process issues. As the other commenter posted above, if you can have an account manager where you have critical services, it will provide you safety at the cost of a higher spend or minimum spending amounts. Edit: Had about $1mm in GCP spend and couldn't open a ticket to get windows running properly. It took a week to find the AM and a day after he had it fixed.
    - omniglottal 4y ago
      Paying extra is not a viable solution for not receiving what one has already paid for.
ix101 4y ago
If a driver gestures to cross and hits the brakes and the brakes don't work it's hard to blame the driver if they didn't design the car. Just saying it might be more of a technical issue and the behaviour probably wasn't normal/expected.
- omniglottal 4y ago
  In this situation, the driver is at fault and everyone can sue the manufacturer/mechanic. Back to Google: they are at fault and responsible for damages, period. What benefit is there in differentiating a company from an employee authorized to communicate and act on their behalf?

bastawhiz 4y ago

How are you supposed to trust a company who told you they wouldn't screw you because of their own error, then screwed you anyway? Having a relationship with them doesn't matter if they still can't be trusted to do business. The type of payment method you use is not a factor that plays into whether you can trust your vendor.

SoftTalker 4y ago
As I mentioned elsewhere, this is a sign of imbalance in the relationship. If you are too small to matter to Google or even to your account rep at Google, then you should not be using them.
mcv 4y ago
I don't think you can. My takeaway from this discussion is definitely that GCP is only suitable for toy projects, and not for serious production stuff that requires continuity.
- mhoad 4y ago
  This is a fundamentally unserious point unless you want to add more qualifiers. I’m pointing to this as evidence https://cloud.google.com/customers https://cloud.google.com/customers I feel like a lot of the problems that people run into with GCP are avoided with two main components. Number one you should look seriously at the “enterprise” designation for different products and services if you are looking for long term stability and guarantees about the future (details: https://cloud.google.com/apis/docs/resources/enterprise-apis https://cloud.google.com/apis/docs/resources/enterprise-apis) and secondly you need to buy actual customer support as an add on if you want to avoid the “I had to hit the front page of HN to actually speak to someone” scenario https://cloud.google.com/support https://cloud.google.com/support
  - acheron 4y ago
  - asojfdowgh 4y ago

latexr 4y ago

According to the OP, Google assured them a suspension wouldn’t happen then did it anyway. In the car analogy it’s akin to looking the driver in the eyes and them signalling to you it’s safe to cross, only to hit the gas and run you over as you do. No amount of looking both ways before crossing would have saved you.