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Is There an HN for Women?
Or a site like this one, lobsters, etc, with, if not a majority, at least a sizable community of women involved ?
I see it's been asked before what percentage of women might make up contributors here, with no clear answer. But it seems like there aren't many or they'd rather not make a point about it.
- badpun 4y agoIs HN not for women? I think it's for everyone.
- sabertoothed 4y agoWhy does there need to be? HN is for anyone, no?
- hnbad 4y agoHN is decidedly not "for anyone". It's an outgrowth of US tech VC culture and it has significant biases inherited from that (specifically a tech (right-)libertarian political leaning and an overrepresentation of white and Asian men from wealthy backgrounds). It's literally the Paradox of Tolerance at play. Contrast Twitter with its "free speech alternatives" and then consider that Twitter is actually historically intentionally hands-off when it comes to content moderation. I agree that an "HN for women" likely wouldn't solve any of these problems as by that description alone it sounds like the "girlboss feminism" equivalent and would likely inherit many of its problems. But I would also argue that if you try to distill the problematic aspects out of HN it ceases to be HN and you should really just ask about more inclusive tech news communities rather than a pinker version of the orange site.
- gspetr 4y agoTwitter is hands-off when it comes to content moderation? What? Not even people on Twitter believe that, according to a poll that Elon Musk ran.
- warrenm 4y ago>specifically a tech (right-)libertarian political leaning What part of HN have I missed over the last ~decade and a half? I could be with you on the "libertarian" aspect ... but "right-libertarian leaning" No way - this site leans notably left (albeit often with a libertarian twist)
- hnbad 4y agoYou're conflating "right" with "far-right". American libertarianism is moderately right-wing. Left-wing libertarians are anarchists, not against "rules" but against power hierarchies (freedom from oppression). Right-wing "libertarians" are laissez-faire capitalists (freedom from interference). I realize that the prevalence of religious fundamentalist opinions in US politics skews the perception of what "left" and "right" mean but NOT being a theocrat or NOT actively wanting a white ethnostate doesn't make anyone "left-wing".
- taskforcegemini 4y agowhat aspects of hn are problematic?
- das_keyboard 4y agoYes, here you go: https://news.ycombinator.com/news https://news.ycombinator.com/news
- iammjm 4y agoHow would an "HN for women" be different from this one?
- desindol 4y agopink instead of orange /s?
- akvadrako 4y agoYou can change the top bar to any color you want in preferences.
- PurpleRamen 4y agoMaybe different news. Definitely different vibes. The reaction here are all very uncomfortable again for manifold reasons. It's really no surprise this question was asked.
- mdrzn 4y ago"Is there an HN for ***" would create uncountable subcultures and divisions which are definitely not needed. Whatever you might be interested in discussing or reading here, I as a male might be interested in too.
- krapp 4y agoPeople ask for "HN for **" all the time here, no one has a problem with it. There's one such thread making the rounds right now. Most HNers want this place to be for tech only and feel the quality of discourse is degraded by the introduction of non-technical issues. They're incorrect, but the trend to want "HN but for x" is common. As far as wanting a platform for women specifically, that also seems understandable given how hostile the community here can be towards women and subjects that involve womens' issues. Just see some of the other responses here, or anything approaching certain social or "political" topics which some people, women in particular, might find relevant.
- mdrzn 4y agoWhile I understand the needs, I still don't agree with the request. >> that also seems understandable given how hostile the community here can be towards women and subjects that involve) womens' issues Someone might also propose "HN for Crypto so we don't get bashed in every thread" or "HN for Tesla fanboys so we can talk without getting hate". I would on the other hand appreciate more widely targeted articles on HN, instead of dozens of "Here's the latest new language" threads.
- krapp 4y agoI'm sure HN for crypto has been proposed many times, if it doesn't actually exist somewhere.
- hnbad 4y agoAll of crypto is basically HN for crypto. HN's biggest historical influence is VC culture (heck, look at the domain name) and crypto mostly runs on VC money (especially a16z). HN's disregard for crypto despite of this is probably one of its most redeeming traits.
- panic 4y agoThe fact that this question was instantly flagged off the front page says a lot about the HN readership in and of itself. OP, I'm not aware of such a site, but I'm sure many people would appreciate a place like that.
- theelous3 4y agoIt's probably being flagged because it's toxic genderbaiting in a place that has a healthy disregard for gender in the first place.
- panic 4y agoWhat about this straightforward question is "toxic genderbaiting"?
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- qsort 4y agoAsking "is there an HN for women" is like asking "is there a Github for lesbians". It's implying women aren't welcome. On a website where if you don't explicitly say it yourself, nobody will ever know if you're a man or a woman.
- yrgulation 4y agoI am seriously confused. Whats wrong with asking if there is a lesbian github? Also I doubt asking wether there’s a HN for males with bbq bellies who want to talk space travel would get flagged as fast as this post. But i am sure the question you fantasised will.
- qsort 4y ago
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- LatteLazy 4y agoIf you want something with specifically Female orientated content try https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/ otherwise, HN is pretty neutral on gender...
- panic 4y agoTwoXChromosomes isn't a tech community in the same category as HN and lobste.rs.
- LatteLazy 4y agoI just took the question literally, I didn't realise they wanted Tech AND female.
- 28304283409234 4y agoCould it be that we HN people are in a biased male bubble? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5520342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5520342 With numbers like that it would seem impossible not to be.
- Udo 4y agoIf women feel HN is not currently for them, the questions would be: why not and what can we do to remedy that? Percentage of contributors is a problematic benchmark here, because the industry as a whole has a very depressing gender split. If you're put off by the conservatism often on display here, the solution is not to leave and look elsewhere - the solution would be more engagement and show of presence.
- hnbad 4y agoWhy should women do the work of making HN more attractive to women if they could just go elsewhere where they don't have to fight an uphill battle against an entrenched gender bias (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32549264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32549264)? Therapy is useless if you're not willing to change. HN doesn't actually show any indication of willigness to change, quite the opposite actually. If how HN is is what's keeping women out, all you're asking of women is to grit their teeth and endure it.
- Daedren 4y agoBecause we'll never achieve a 50/50 split, we must learn to live with each other and adapt. Plus there are also other minorities we need to take into account, not just women. It's just a fact that there's far more men in the industry, it's been like this forever. Even if suddenly we had a women majority of new people, it'd still take many generations for us to hit 50/50. But in this community, what are the issues that makes women -allegedly- not feeling welcome? Because that would be a poll with merit. "Therapy is useless if you're not willing to change" -> What change has even been suggested? You're assuming there's less women because "HN is as it is", but isn't it far more likely to be because there's just less women in the industry? It could be either, but we can't just assume and take drastic action. It's not that there's zero women here.
- warrenm 4y ago>Because we'll never achieve a 50/50 split, we must learn to live with each other and adapt. Plus there are also other minorities we need to take into account, not just women. The best way to improve "inclusivity" is by not worrying about "inclusivity" Let people do what they want >It's just a fact that there's far more men in the industry, it's been like this forever. Even if suddenly we had a women majority of new people, it'd still take many generations for us to hit 50/50. Why would a 50/50 split even be desirable? Should there be a 50/50 split in every industry? Why (or why not)? How would that be enforced?
- yamrzou 4y agoRelated: Poll: My gender is... (2008) — https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=126938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=126938 Poll: Male or female? (2009) — https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=591309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=591309 Poll: Male or female or other (2013) — https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5520342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5520342
- BerislavLopac 4y agoIs it still possible to publish polls on HN?
- yamrzou 4y agoYes: https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll https://news.ycombinator.com/newpoll
- rizach8 4y agoI have never thought about the gender of a single user on this site, ever.
- hnbad 4y agoI have almost never thought about the gender of a single user on this site either. That's because I assume they're a white guy like me until indicated otherwise. That's because most of the people I see in most tech spaces are white guys like me, so I'm probably right (and when I'm not it's usually because they're a Asian rather than white). That's what it's like to be the default character model. That's not what it's like not being that. Heck, for the longest time as a white guy in tech I thought simply treating people who aren't white guys as if they were was good enough. That only changed when I listened to a woman talk about her experience of being on the receiving end of that, with her colleagues being so comfortable treating her as "one of the boys" that they'd openly be misogynist about other women in her presence ("but you're not like them of course"). Not being the default character model sucks. Having a community with a default character model closer to your own is an improvement. Of course even better still would be not having any single default character model but "pink HN" might still be better than nothing.
- Daedren 4y agoThe problem is that you're suggestion division, discrimination and segregation of the community based on assumptions and your own world view, to perhaps solve a problem that doesn't even exist? Do most women feel the same way you do? Because it's their opinion that matters here. Do they feel HN is toxic? Can it be solved on the current HN? Does it REALLY need a separate website with a divided community? Would we also need a separate HN for transgenders and other minorities currently existing in the tech space? It's an extreme solution that only fosters more discrimination in my opinion. I don't think the question merits the whole thing being flagged, but I definitely don't agree with the idea.
- unpopularopp 4y agoHow would you verify someone is a women? What does a women mean in this context?
- chesterbr 4y agoNon-minority here. IMHO, the question is valid and should not be flagged. It’s ok to look for/ask about a version of it where a particular demographic feels more represented/included. That does not invalidate the site or the people who don’t belong to such groups, and having the question flagged so fast only raises suspicions over the alleged neutrality of the site regarding gender, etc.
- rich_sasha 4y agoI'm of the general opinion that people should be free to make their own sub-communities, and even within reason restrict access to others. Say women in tech want a male-free space? Well fine. The issue is, what then about "white men in tech"? Do they get to have a group to themselves, to discuss issues from, dunno, "dealing with tech Feminazis", or whatever white men in tech struggle with? What about white supremacists in tech? Elite SEs against influx of cheap junior labour? I'm personally not a member of any such "selective" groups and for these reasons feel a bit ambivalent about them. But as i say, go ahead as far as I'm concerned...
- alldayeveryday 4y ago> Say women in tech want a male-free space? Well fine. > The issue is, what then about "white men in tech"? Do they get to have a group to themselves, to discuss issues from [...] An interesting observation that white men having their own space is an "issue" whereas any other collective is not an issue.
- qsort 4y agoGP's reasoning is by modus tollens.
- alldayeveryday 4y agoConcerning this topic I commonly see the logic: If P, then Q. Not Q. But still, P.
- 4y ago
- merricksb 4y agoElpha is a discussion community for women in tech. It was started by a female YC employee and she then left YC employment to run it full time, with YC funding it as part of their summer 2019 batch. https://elpha.com https://elpha.com
- badpun 4y agoI made a comment asking "Is HN not for women? I think it's for everyone." a couple hours ago. It got +7 karma since. And yet, it's now not shown (it's folded) by default. It never happened to be before on HN. Can someone explain what feature is this? BTW I see that it happened to majority of comments. What the heck is going on here?
- MerelyMortal 4y agoI am curious as well.
- mariusor 4y agoI personally don't think gender segregation should have a place in tech discussions, or any discussion in general, as long as conversation is held in good faith and in a respectful manner. However for the people that do want it, I think that they need to look further than HN. By its centralized nature HN will guarantee that the over represented voices will drown everyone else. The only way I see this kind of an effort gathering steam is by using one of the discussion platforms coming from the ActivityPub community as a starting point, but unfortunately that brings all the problems of building a community from scratch to the surface. Even if the community would be connected to the greater mass of the fediverse, it would still require a lot of effort to gather mind share. :( But I would still be interested in seeing such an effort take root. (And to toot my own horn, I do happen to have a project that can be used for this purpose; details in my bio, anyone feel free to reach out.)
- PurpleRamen 4y ago> I personally don't think gender segregation should have a place in tech discussions, or any discussion in general, Segregation happens naturally in any human society. It's not something we can avoid. Though, there are supporting elements, and in that regard this site is quite good, as there is not much infrastructure to support community-building here. > as long as conversation is held in good faith and in a respectful manner. It's not that simple. Even with good faith and respect can you create an unattractive environment for someone, without being guilty of it. And it's not like discussions here are all in good faith and absolut respectful. Tone and messages here can be very harsh, just with less swearings.
- berry_sortoro 4y ago
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- rrrt 4y agoYou could try Ovarit, it's one of the few exclusively women-centered forums out there. They have a STEM sub-forum if you're looking for tech topics in particular.
- NylaTheWolf 4y agoOvarit is a website run by former moderators of r/GenderCritical, a now-banned subreddit for "gender critical" people and TERFs.
- rrrt 4y agoIndeed it is. Women sticking up for women, without a bunch of power-tripping men telling them what to do.