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Honestly why stop there? I'm big on the Fred Flintstones foot-driven model. I'd even put my vote behind a political platform that has it front and center. I th

Honestly why stop there? I'm big on the Fred Flintstones foot-driven model. I'd even put my vote behind a political platform that has it front and center. I think cars make the world worse, but to the extent that we have them electric cars are significantly better than ICE cars in basically every way. I want less cars, but until then, they should be electric. Efficiency is higher, torque off the line is significantly better, carbon footprint is lower, they're way more fun to drive and significantly simpler from a mechanical perspective. What's not to like?

paganel 4y ago
> Honestly why stop there? ICE cars were a lot better than horse- and cow-driven carts (I should know about the latter, my entire childhood at my grandparents was spent in cow-driven carts on the way to the the hay-growing fields and back, think this [1]), while I don't see EVs better than ICE cars. Yes, on some technical parameters they are better, as you mention, but on many others they are not: the charging times will never come down to reasonable times unless we discover some new laws of physics, which in turn causes people like me, who live in apartment blocks, to not be able to have a EV (I'm not going to spend half an hour and more every few days at an electrical charging station), prices will never go to the same level as ICE cars (unless ICE cars become even more expensive thanks to new extra taxes imposed from top-down), the EVs are "dependent" on their computer OSs, I have very rarely met a computer OS that is easily updatable and maintainable after 10 or so years, as such, most of the EVs will become a pain in the ass to own after those 10 or so years (as it now happens to smart-phones after 3-4 years). [1] https://alpinet.org/foto/2003/10/22/ZjkyOGRhZDE5ZmZmNjUwMjEwZWUzNTYxZjYyMmZhODfoto_15740.jpg https://alpinet.org/foto/2003/10/22/ZjkyOGRhZDE5ZmZmNjUwMjEw...
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  EVS are already cheaper and the crossover price for up front cost has long been predicted to happen in the next couple of years. So they'll be cheaper up front, cheaper to run and pollution will be taxed and regulated more making running an ICE less attractive. The US had a decent attempt at forcing EVs to be only luxury vehicles, but the rest of the world didn't fall for that.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  > ... the charging times will never come down to reasonable times unless we discover some new laws of physics... Supercapacitor development continues apace, but even without, a wall connector gets you 40 miles per hour charged, and a supercharger gets you 200 miles per hour charged. So my question is, just how far are you going? If it's really far, consider a bus, train or plane. > ... which in turn causes people like me, who live in apartment blocks, to not be able to have a EV (I'm not going to spend half an hour and more every few days at an electrical charging station) You spend a half hour or more every few days at a gas station bud. Set a timer next time you go. Also, charge it at home? > ... prices will never go to the same level as ICE cars (unless ICE cars become even more expensive thanks to new extra taxes imposed from top-down) ... Of course they will, but remember, up front costs are only a tiny part of the picture. ICE cars will get more expensive if the oil and gas subsidies are removed - no need to add new taxes. > ... the EVs are "dependent" on their computer OSs, I have very rarely met a computer OS that is easily updatable and maintainable after 10 or so years, as such, most of the EVs will become a pain in the ass to own after those 10 or so years (as it now happens to smart-phones after 3-4 years). I suggest you check out what's going on in a gas car. BMW is/was selling CarPlay [1] and seat warmer subscriptions [2]. This has nothing to do with the fuel type and everything to do with evaluating new business models. I'm not sure why advocating against all this needs a political party. [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30139034/bmw-apple-carplay-free/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30139034/bmw-apple-carpla... [2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bmw-subscription-plan-for-seat-warmers-17-a-month/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bmw-subscription-plan-for-seat-...
  - tdesilva 4y ago
    > > ... which in turn causes people like me, who live in apartment blocks, to not be able to have a EV (I'm not going to spend half an hour and more every few days at an electrical charging station) > You spend a half hour or more every few days at a gas station bud. Set a timer next time you go. Also, charge it at home? Who spends 30 minutes at the pump? The actual act of filling the car takes less than 5 minutes. Even if you include wait times it's still less than 30 minutes in a busy, car centric city (and then you need to account for the fact that EVs also have to wait to charge). The comment you replied to explicitly stated they live in an apartment, so at home charging isn't an option. I would only consider an EV if I had a SFH. Even if the building I live in adds a few charging stations, it's not worth the hassle to go fully electric.

paganel 4y ago

> Honestly why stop there? ICE cars were a lot better than horse- and cow-driven carts (I should know about the latter, my entire childhood at my grandparents was spent in cow-driven carts on the way to the the hay-growing fields and back, think this [1]), while I don't see EVs better than ICE cars. Yes, on some technical parameters they are better, as you mention, but on many others they are not: the charging times will never come down to reasonable times unless we discover some new laws of physics, which in turn causes people like me, who live in apartment blocks, to not be able to have a EV (I'm not going to spend half an hour and more every few days at an electrical charging station), prices will never go to the same level as ICE cars (unless ICE cars become even more expensive thanks to new extra taxes imposed from top-down), the EVs are "dependent" on their computer OSs, I have very rarely met a computer OS that is easily updatable and maintainable after 10 or so years, as such, most of the EVs will become a pain in the ass to own after those 10 or so years (as it now happens to smart-phones after 3-4 years). [1] https://alpinet.org/foto/2003/10/22/ZjkyOGRhZDE5ZmZmNjUwMjEwZWUzNTYxZjYyMmZhODfoto_15740.jpg https://alpinet.org/foto/2003/10/22/ZjkyOGRhZDE5ZmZmNjUwMjEw...

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
EVS are already cheaper and the crossover price for up front cost has long been predicted to happen in the next couple of years. So they'll be cheaper up front, cheaper to run and pollution will be taxed and regulated more making running an ICE less attractive. The US had a decent attempt at forcing EVs to be only luxury vehicles, but the rest of the world didn't fall for that.
arcticbull 4y ago
> ... the charging times will never come down to reasonable times unless we discover some new laws of physics... Supercapacitor development continues apace, but even without, a wall connector gets you 40 miles per hour charged, and a supercharger gets you 200 miles per hour charged. So my question is, just how far are you going? If it's really far, consider a bus, train or plane. > ... which in turn causes people like me, who live in apartment blocks, to not be able to have a EV (I'm not going to spend half an hour and more every few days at an electrical charging station) You spend a half hour or more every few days at a gas station bud. Set a timer next time you go. Also, charge it at home? > ... prices will never go to the same level as ICE cars (unless ICE cars become even more expensive thanks to new extra taxes imposed from top-down) ... Of course they will, but remember, up front costs are only a tiny part of the picture. ICE cars will get more expensive if the oil and gas subsidies are removed - no need to add new taxes. > ... the EVs are "dependent" on their computer OSs, I have very rarely met a computer OS that is easily updatable and maintainable after 10 or so years, as such, most of the EVs will become a pain in the ass to own after those 10 or so years (as it now happens to smart-phones after 3-4 years). I suggest you check out what's going on in a gas car. BMW is/was selling CarPlay [1] and seat warmer subscriptions [2]. This has nothing to do with the fuel type and everything to do with evaluating new business models. I'm not sure why advocating against all this needs a political party. [1] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30139034/bmw-apple-carplay-free/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30139034/bmw-apple-carpla... [2] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bmw-subscription-plan-for-seat-warmers-17-a-month/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bmw-subscription-plan-for-seat-...
- tdesilva 4y ago
  > > ... which in turn causes people like me, who live in apartment blocks, to not be able to have a EV (I'm not going to spend half an hour and more every few days at an electrical charging station) > You spend a half hour or more every few days at a gas station bud. Set a timer next time you go. Also, charge it at home? Who spends 30 minutes at the pump? The actual act of filling the car takes less than 5 minutes. Even if you include wait times it's still less than 30 minutes in a busy, car centric city (and then you need to account for the fact that EVs also have to wait to charge). The comment you replied to explicitly stated they live in an apartment, so at home charging isn't an option. I would only consider an EV if I had a SFH. Even if the building I live in adds a few charging stations, it's not worth the hassle to go fully electric.