7 ms·

A deceptive curing practice in hunter–Gatherer societies

31 points by exolymph 4y ago

worthless-trash 4y ago
Wait till you hear about the deceptive process of "Kurdaitcha" in the aboriginal communities. I imagine there was similar behavior across most hunter-gather societies.
- smegsicle 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdaitcha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdaitcha > All deaths are considered to be the result of evil spirits or spells, usually influenced by an enemy. wonder if that has something to do with the sleeping on the road thing
  - cainxinth 4y ago
    Psychosomatic death is an actual thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo_death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo_death
aaron695 4y ago
zasdffaa 4y ago
This title is deceptive itself. From the abstract "This and similar tricks can be highly deceptive, but they can also be undertaken for entertainment, symbolic reasons, their placebo-like utility to sick patients, or some mixture of each" *can be* not *is* This title is copied from the paper, but I don't like it.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  I didn't get a pejorative vibe from the title and the abstract > The recurrent invention of the trick across independent societies, as well as its cultural inheritance and diffusion between groups, indicates that it likely appeals to certain universal facets of human psychology, where experiences of sickness and pain commonly induce one to seek interventive cures from specialists, who in turn may use deceptive displays to give the appearance of greater skill and powers. But now you've mentioned it, I can see how it would read that way. I think they're just being straightforward though. I think some would group some modern surgeries in this area too, thinking particularly of back surgery that may be a very complicated and dangerous placebo in some cases. https://www.smh.com.au/national/back-pain-try-some-placebo-surgery-20160224-gn1xna.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/back-pain-try-some-placebo-s...
EdwardDiego 4y ago
MDPI has some... ...ahem dubious practices, and may well be a predatory publisher. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5493177/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5493177/
- mikro2nd 4y ago
  Yes, I was wondering what the hell they did to my "back" button. Then I saw that I had "visited" the page something like 8 or 10 times just by clicking the article link here. How the hell does that work? And why?
  - nousermane 4y ago
    How -> history API: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/History_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/History_API It was designed to accommodate highly JS-driven sites/apps, where user rarely, if ever, clicks on regular <a href="">, but notion of "going back" is still a thing. Of course, this API also opened floodgates to all sorts of scammers.
- _yb2s 4y ago
  As an academic that has published in, and reviewed for several MDPI journals, this total nonsense- they are a legitimate publisher. I haven't seen any signs of them being corrupt, predatory, or dishonest. Many of their niche journals are well respected in narrow sub-fields, and seem to be good quality. They also have very modern publication/typesetting/submission workflows that make them a pleasure to work with vs the older closed access journals. I would say they have lower standards for 'impact' vs more prestigious journals.... which means they play a valuable role in the field- they publish mostly technical methods, and other results that are interesting and useful to a narrow specialized audience.
  - EdwardDiego 4y ago
    Thank you for the feedback, I'm not at all an academic, so I'm curious as to your thoughts on the article I linked to?
hannyaharamita 4y ago
Tell me I am not the only one who clicked on wondering how old societies had a fake bacon problem.
pingou 4y ago
"Elkin (1949) notes further that among the Pitjantjatjara and other Australian groups, a medicine man would often seek out a colleague for treatment when he himself was sick". I often wonder if magnetizers/Energy medicine healers and other charlatans believe in what they do and if they would seek the assistance of their colleagues when sick.
batmanturkey 4y ago
It all starts with “I got your nose!”
rpaddock 4y ago
What is the success rate of the 'Magic' based treatments vs Medical Establishment treatment? Myself I'd trust the Witchdoctor more than the Medical Establishment doctors from personal experiences with the latter.

31 points by exolymph 4y ago

Wait till you hear about the deceptive process of "Kurdaitcha" in the aboriginal communities. I imagine there was similar behavior across most hunter-gather societies.

smegsicle 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdaitcha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdaitcha > All deaths are considered to be the result of evil spirits or spells, usually influenced by an enemy. wonder if that has something to do with the sleeping on the road thing
- cainxinth 4y ago
  Psychosomatic death is an actual thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo_death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo_death

aaron695 4y ago

zasdffaa 4y ago

This title is deceptive itself. From the abstract "This and similar tricks can be highly deceptive, but they can also be undertaken for entertainment, symbolic reasons, their placebo-like utility to sick patients, or some mixture of each" *can be* not *is* This title is copied from the paper, but I don't like it.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
I didn't get a pejorative vibe from the title and the abstract > The recurrent invention of the trick across independent societies, as well as its cultural inheritance and diffusion between groups, indicates that it likely appeals to certain universal facets of human psychology, where experiences of sickness and pain commonly induce one to seek interventive cures from specialists, who in turn may use deceptive displays to give the appearance of greater skill and powers. But now you've mentioned it, I can see how it would read that way. I think they're just being straightforward though. I think some would group some modern surgeries in this area too, thinking particularly of back surgery that may be a very complicated and dangerous placebo in some cases. https://www.smh.com.au/national/back-pain-try-some-placebo-surgery-20160224-gn1xna.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/back-pain-try-some-placebo-s...

EdwardDiego 4y ago

MDPI has some... ...ahem dubious practices, and may well be a predatory publisher. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5493177/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5493177/

mikro2nd 4y ago
Yes, I was wondering what the hell they did to my "back" button. Then I saw that I had "visited" the page something like 8 or 10 times just by clicking the article link here. How the hell does that work? And why?
- nousermane 4y ago
  How -> history API: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/History_API https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/History_API It was designed to accommodate highly JS-driven sites/apps, where user rarely, if ever, clicks on regular <a href="">, but notion of "going back" is still a thing. Of course, this API also opened floodgates to all sorts of scammers.
_yb2s 4y ago
As an academic that has published in, and reviewed for several MDPI journals, this total nonsense- they are a legitimate publisher. I haven't seen any signs of them being corrupt, predatory, or dishonest. Many of their niche journals are well respected in narrow sub-fields, and seem to be good quality. They also have very modern publication/typesetting/submission workflows that make them a pleasure to work with vs the older closed access journals. I would say they have lower standards for 'impact' vs more prestigious journals.... which means they play a valuable role in the field- they publish mostly technical methods, and other results that are interesting and useful to a narrow specialized audience.
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  Thank you for the feedback, I'm not at all an academic, so I'm curious as to your thoughts on the article I linked to?

hannyaharamita 4y ago

Tell me I am not the only one who clicked on wondering how old societies had a fake bacon problem.

pingou 4y ago

"Elkin (1949) notes further that among the Pitjantjatjara and other Australian groups, a medicine man would often seek out a colleague for treatment when he himself was sick". I often wonder if magnetizers/Energy medicine healers and other charlatans believe in what they do and if they would seek the assistance of their colleagues when sick.

batmanturkey 4y ago

It all starts with “I got your nose!”

rpaddock 4y ago

What is the success rate of the 'Magic' based treatments vs Medical Establishment treatment? Myself I'd trust the Witchdoctor more than the Medical Establishment doctors from personal experiences with the latter.