6 ms·

Indeed they are not a lawyer. A lawyer would know that this is not illegal. It violates the rights of the copyright holder, but that’s not a crime.

na85 4y ago
edit: I stand corrected
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- zb 4y ago
  Lawyers make a distinction between "illegal" (crimes) and "unlawful" (torts) that is mostly lost on the general public.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    And some acts, like copyright infringement, can be both criminal and civil violations.
    - eru 4y ago
      See also 'wrongful death'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_death_claim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_death_claim
  - LudwigNagasena 4y ago
    Do you have any references? That doesn’t sound true. From dictionary.law.com: illegal adj. in violation of statute, regulation or ordinance, which may be criminal or merely not in conformity. Thus, an armed robbery is illegal, and so is an access road which is narrower than the county allows, but the violation is not criminal. unlawful adj. referring to any action which is in violation of a statute, federal or state constitution, or established legal precedents
- kube-system 4y ago
  Speeding in the US ̶g̶e̶n̶e̶r̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶s̶ (edit: can be) a criminal summary offense.
  - callalex 4y ago
    What does “summary” mean in this context?
    - kube-system 4y ago
      It means that it is a type of crime for which proceedings can take place without a jury.
    - resist_futility 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_offence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_offence
  - chefandy 4y ago
    I believe speeding tickets are generally civil summary offenses. Criminal summary offenses are apparently even called "non-traffic summary offenses" in some places to distinguish them. Every speeding ticket I've ever gotten specifically noted that it was a civil infraction. When a police error resulted a summons for attaching license plates to a car they weren't registered to, the ticket in the mail specifically said it was a criminal infraction.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      After a quick search, I think you might be right.. or at least my generalization is too hasty.
    - REvsCfiwW7nP4u7 4y ago
      In Texas traffic tickets are criminal offenses, generally class C misdemeanors. I don't think we're unique in that, either. For this reason many questions baout crimes you may have committed will ask "other than misdemeanor traffic offenses" or such...
racingmars 4y ago
I'm not sure if you mean in this specific case or in general, but in general, copyright infringement certainly can be criminal. Willful infringement for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, for example, is a criminal offense in the United States (17 USC 506).
torstenvl 4y ago
You make it sound like copyright infringement is never a crime, when that isn't true at all. 18 U.S.C. § 2319. Now, the commercial use or intent of the software in question isn't analyzed in the OP (or in your comment) and I haven't dug into it. In this particular case it may or may not meet the elements of the five-year federal felony. But your comment is far too quick to dismiss the possibility. (Additionally, as a sibling comment pointed out, the word "illegal" doesn't always necessarily mean "criminal.")
- 3np 4y ago
  Have you confirmed the physical location and applicable jurisdictions of the maintainers of those distros or why focus specifically on US law here? I know the US is trying (and often getting away with) unilaterally setting rules on the global stage but let's try to not play along.
  - sidewndr46 4y ago
    I can think of at least a few individuals who might support the idea that US jurisdiction is either the only jurisdiction that matters, or at least covers the 90% of the Earth at minimum. Let's see: 1. Kim DotCom 2. Julian Assange 3. Edward Snowden 4. Henry Kissinger 5. Meng Wanzhou The list goes on I imagine, those are just the notable ones from my lifetime.
    - 3np 4y ago
      6/7/8: brokep, anakata, tiamo. It's still early to tell but we may have to add Aleksey Pertsev to this list :/ > 3. Edward Snowden U.S. citizen being hunted for acts committed on US soil so as terrible as prosecuting them is, I don't see how it's relevant here. Other than that, yes, my point is we should not be normalizing and shrugging this off as "the way things are". Individuals and businesses are doing right in taking this into their risk-calculations but that does not make it lawful or constitutional even when local governments or LE are complicit. Not everyone are as aware of this as you and I and comments like GP frame this in a deceptive way for those who aren't. If done deliberately and under certain other circumstances I'd even call it propaganda (not saying that's what GP is intending to do but one can both speak truth and have good intentions while still spreading propaganda).

na85 4y ago

edit: I stand corrected

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
zb 4y ago
Lawyers make a distinction between "illegal" (crimes) and "unlawful" (torts) that is mostly lost on the general public.
- kube-system 4y ago
  And some acts, like copyright infringement, can be both criminal and civil violations.
  - eru 4y ago
    See also 'wrongful death'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_death_claim https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_death_claim
- LudwigNagasena 4y ago
  Do you have any references? That doesn’t sound true. From dictionary.law.com: illegal adj. in violation of statute, regulation or ordinance, which may be criminal or merely not in conformity. Thus, an armed robbery is illegal, and so is an access road which is narrower than the county allows, but the violation is not criminal. unlawful adj. referring to any action which is in violation of a statute, federal or state constitution, or established legal precedents
kube-system 4y ago
Speeding in the US ̶g̶e̶n̶e̶r̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶i̶s̶ (edit: can be) a criminal summary offense.
- callalex 4y ago
  What does “summary” mean in this context?
  - kube-system 4y ago
    It means that it is a type of crime for which proceedings can take place without a jury.
  - resist_futility 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_offence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_offence
- chefandy 4y ago
  I believe speeding tickets are generally civil summary offenses. Criminal summary offenses are apparently even called "non-traffic summary offenses" in some places to distinguish them. Every speeding ticket I've ever gotten specifically noted that it was a civil infraction. When a police error resulted a summons for attaching license plates to a car they weren't registered to, the ticket in the mail specifically said it was a criminal infraction.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    After a quick search, I think you might be right.. or at least my generalization is too hasty.
  - REvsCfiwW7nP4u7 4y ago
    In Texas traffic tickets are criminal offenses, generally class C misdemeanors. I don't think we're unique in that, either. For this reason many questions baout crimes you may have committed will ask "other than misdemeanor traffic offenses" or such...

racingmars 4y ago

I'm not sure if you mean in this specific case or in general, but in general, copyright infringement certainly can be criminal. Willful infringement for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, for example, is a criminal offense in the United States (17 USC 506).

torstenvl 4y ago

You make it sound like copyright infringement is never a crime, when that isn't true at all. 18 U.S.C. § 2319. Now, the commercial use or intent of the software in question isn't analyzed in the OP (or in your comment) and I haven't dug into it. In this particular case it may or may not meet the elements of the five-year federal felony. But your comment is far too quick to dismiss the possibility. (Additionally, as a sibling comment pointed out, the word "illegal" doesn't always necessarily mean "criminal.")

3np 4y ago
Have you confirmed the physical location and applicable jurisdictions of the maintainers of those distros or why focus specifically on US law here? I know the US is trying (and often getting away with) unilaterally setting rules on the global stage but let's try to not play along.
- sidewndr46 4y ago
  I can think of at least a few individuals who might support the idea that US jurisdiction is either the only jurisdiction that matters, or at least covers the 90% of the Earth at minimum. Let's see: 1. Kim DotCom 2. Julian Assange 3. Edward Snowden 4. Henry Kissinger 5. Meng Wanzhou The list goes on I imagine, those are just the notable ones from my lifetime.
  - 3np 4y ago
    6/7/8: brokep, anakata, tiamo. It's still early to tell but we may have to add Aleksey Pertsev to this list :/ > 3. Edward Snowden U.S. citizen being hunted for acts committed on US soil so as terrible as prosecuting them is, I don't see how it's relevant here. Other than that, yes, my point is we should not be normalizing and shrugging this off as "the way things are". Individuals and businesses are doing right in taking this into their risk-calculations but that does not make it lawful or constitutional even when local governments or LE are complicit. Not everyone are as aware of this as you and I and comments like GP frame this in a deceptive way for those who aren't. If done deliberately and under certain other circumstances I'd even call it propaganda (not saying that's what GP is intending to do but one can both speak truth and have good intentions while still spreading propaganda).