6 ms·

- Tesla doesn’t offer LiDAR sensors, even if it’s clearly the best technology to use for the autopilot.

by gridder 4y ago

awestroke 4y ago
Because it is prohibitively expensive, and you get more data with multiple cameras than with one single lidar
- clouddrover 4y ago
  It didn't prohibit Mercedes: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39966189/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-drive-pilot-drive/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39966189/2022-mercedes... https://electrek.co/2022/07/22/mercedes-drive-pilot-review/ https://electrek.co/2022/07/22/mercedes-drive-pilot-review/
  - awestroke 4y ago
    Well yeah, if you double the price of the car you can afford to slap lidar on it. You'll sell fewer cars, however
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      So what's the Model S's and Model X's excuse? They've got the Mercedes EQS price tag but not the equipment.
      - awestroke 4y ago
        Tesla want to offer FSD on their whole lineup, not just in their high end models
        clouddrover 4y ago
        Ah, I understand. So the Model S and Model X are rip offs. Better off with the Mercedes EQS. Or the Lucid Air for that matter: https://www.carscoops.com/2022/02/lucids-lidar-based-dreamdrive-pro-is-cheaper-than-tesla-fsd-in-the-us-more-expensive-in-canada/ https://www.carscoops.com/2022/02/lucids-lidar-based-dreamdr...
- __m 4y ago
  Not at night
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > you get more data with multiple cameras than with one single lidar Until you're at night in the snow/dirt.
  - hoseja 4y ago
    Yeah, lidar famously deals well with inclement weather and low visibility conditions. Those infrared lasers just punch right through the fog and snowflakes. Lmao.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      Ah you decided to be smart and sarcastic, and inadvertently showed just how limited the tech in these "autonomous" cars is. And that you can't just handwave these problems away.
gzer0 4y ago
Not even close. Psuedo-LiDAR approach is the way to go and everyone knows it. Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Well, except not running over mannequins of kids. [1] You know, the simple stuff. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aMWERzT7SQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aMWERzT7SQ
  - drcross 4y ago
    This has been completely debunked numerous times in the last week. It's a total smear campaign by a competitor.
    - hahaxdxd123 4y ago
      oh https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1557766646026084359 https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1557766646026084359
    - thedrbrian 4y ago
      >This has been completely debunked numerous times in the last week show us
- chell830 4y ago
  > Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it. Waymo launched their commercial robo-taxi service in 2017. It’s still running today. Open to the public [1]. Meanwhile, Tesla is phasing out their FSD program. Beta-testers, 98 safety score, $15K cost, whatever, current Tesla owners are pissed off. FSD is a sinking ship, just like the Tesla/Elon brand. They used to be cool. [1] https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2017/04/25/google-self-driving-cars-phoenix-area-residents/100875448/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2017/04/...
  - 4y ago
hoseja 4y ago
Is this a sarcastic joke? Surely you can't mean that.
jeffreygoesto 4y ago
Radar is working hard to get towards higher resolution and classification quality. From what I know, it is the closest competitor because it is active sensing and complements camera properties even better than LIDAR. In adverse conditions LIDAR and Cameras have similar failure modes, which is not good. I do agree that cameras an ML on the images seems to be stuck at the next plateau of scene understanding performance. An impressive one, admitted, but still not sufficient. For real emergency reactions with highway speeds you need to assess situations about a quarter mile away basically.

- Tesla doesn’t offer LiDAR sensors, even if it’s clearly the best technology to use for the autopilot.

awestroke 4y ago

Because it is prohibitively expensive, and you get more data with multiple cameras than with one single lidar

clouddrover 4y ago
It didn't prohibit Mercedes: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39966189/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-drive-pilot-drive/ https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39966189/2022-mercedes... https://electrek.co/2022/07/22/mercedes-drive-pilot-review/ https://electrek.co/2022/07/22/mercedes-drive-pilot-review/
- awestroke 4y ago
  Well yeah, if you double the price of the car you can afford to slap lidar on it. You'll sell fewer cars, however
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    So what's the Model S's and Model X's excuse? They've got the Mercedes EQS price tag but not the equipment.
    - awestroke 4y ago
      Tesla want to offer FSD on their whole lineup, not just in their high end models
      - clouddrover 4y ago
        Ah, I understand. So the Model S and Model X are rip offs. Better off with the Mercedes EQS. Or the Lucid Air for that matter: https://www.carscoops.com/2022/02/lucids-lidar-based-dreamdrive-pro-is-cheaper-than-tesla-fsd-in-the-us-more-expensive-in-canada/ https://www.carscoops.com/2022/02/lucids-lidar-based-dreamdr...
__m 4y ago
Not at night
dmitriid 4y ago
> you get more data with multiple cameras than with one single lidar Until you're at night in the snow/dirt.
- hoseja 4y ago
  Yeah, lidar famously deals well with inclement weather and low visibility conditions. Those infrared lasers just punch right through the fog and snowflakes. Lmao.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    Ah you decided to be smart and sarcastic, and inadvertently showed just how limited the tech in these "autonomous" cars is. And that you can't just handwave these problems away.

gzer0 4y ago

Not even close. Psuedo-LiDAR approach is the way to go and everyone knows it. Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it.

arcticbull 4y ago
Well, except not running over mannequins of kids. [1] You know, the simple stuff. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aMWERzT7SQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aMWERzT7SQ
- drcross 4y ago
  This has been completely debunked numerous times in the last week. It's a total smear campaign by a competitor.
  - hahaxdxd123 4y ago
    oh https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1557766646026084359 https://twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/1557766646026084359
  - thedrbrian 4y ago
    >This has been completely debunked numerous times in the last week show us
chell830 4y ago
> Waymo and others using LiDAR placed the wrong bet and now have nothing to show for it. Waymo launched their commercial robo-taxi service in 2017. It’s still running today. Open to the public [1]. Meanwhile, Tesla is phasing out their FSD program. Beta-testers, 98 safety score, $15K cost, whatever, current Tesla owners are pissed off. FSD is a sinking ship, just like the Tesla/Elon brand. They used to be cool. [1] https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2017/04/25/google-self-driving-cars-phoenix-area-residents/100875448/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2017/04/...
- 4y ago

hoseja 4y ago

Is this a sarcastic joke? Surely you can't mean that.

jeffreygoesto 4y ago

Radar is working hard to get towards higher resolution and classification quality. From what I know, it is the closest competitor because it is active sensing and complements camera properties even better than LIDAR. In adverse conditions LIDAR and Cameras have similar failure modes, which is not good. I do agree that cameras an ML on the images seems to be stuck at the next plateau of scene understanding performance. An impressive one, admitted, but still not sufficient. For real emergency reactions with highway speeds you need to assess situations about a quarter mile away basically.