4 ms·

I think we can all agree this is not a problem in Finland. Teachers there are paid in accordance with the high respect they're given in society.

obscurette 4y ago
Nordic countries do all much better than others in my experience. I'm sure that they have their own problems, but such level of bullshit and disrespect is not one of them indeed.
300bps 4y ago
I think we can all agree this is not a problem in Finland The county I live in has similar demographics to Finland. We get 350 applications for every open teacher position. Not very accurate to compare Finland’s homogenous population of 5 million to the United State’s incredibly diverse population of 330 million.
- havblue 4y ago
  This isn't entirely a criticism of the parent post, but praise of entirely different education systems comes across as Finland ex machina: just do what they do and our problems are solved. Aside from the parenting component which is a huge part of student success, there's also the question of replacing school boards, administration staff, hiring better teachers of course and reforming local laws. And of course the teachers unions and the financial issues with pensions. There's no easy way to transition out of our existing problems and parents with the means just hit the eject button, sending their kids to private schools.
  - iratewizard 4y ago
    Do what they do as in have a high-trust, heterogeneous society?
- pnutjam 4y ago
  Finland has a lot of immigrants and refugees. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-education-immigrant-children https://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-ed...
  - 300bps 4y ago
    I wouldn't consider 7.9% of the population as "a lot" of immigrants when compared to the United States being 26%. And immigrants aren't the only issue. There's a lot of racial diversity in the US that just doesn't exist in Finland. And the educational record for immigrants in Finland is not great: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1467598022000008350?journalCode=ceji20 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1467598022000008... And again, Finland's entire population is substantially less than half the population of the US state of Pennsylvania.
  - rr808 4y ago
    It still is small. Also Finland's education results have been slipping, likely because of said immigration: "Finland has been displaced from the very top. In the 2012 study, Finland ranked sixth in reading, twelfth in mathematics and fifth in science, while back in the 2003 study Finland was first in both science and reading and second in mathematics." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland
aqsalose 4y ago
Coincidentally just yesterday there was a big news article in the largest daily newspaper about the problems teachers have with uncooperative parents. One memorable case was of the parents calling the teacher and informing them that the parents have agreed with their kid is exempt from reading books. In another, during a disagreement with a teacher, kid called their parent, put the parent on speaker, who then proceeded disparage the teacher in very low language in front of the rest of class. The article is here https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000009001096.html https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000009001096.html : it is in Finnish, but Google Translate manages to make sense of it in English. The social standing and respect teachers have varies a lot in different social spheres, but it is certainly not as high and universal as doctors.
sampo 4y ago
> I think we can all agree this is not a problem in Finland. Schools in Finland are starting to have problems trying to recruit enough teachers: https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12555574 https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12555574 https://www.aamulehti.fi/pirkanmaa/art-2000009014541.html https://www.aamulehti.fi/pirkanmaa/art-2000009014541.html
rr808 4y ago
> Teachers there are paid in accordance with the high respect they're given in society. You sure? on the list they get paid near the worst in the OECD. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/heres-how-much-teachers-around-the-world-are-paid.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/heres-how-much-teachers-arou...
- SamBam 4y ago
  Different data showing the same thing, Finish teachers are not paid well: https://www.chalk.com/resources/most-least-paid-teachers-in-world/ https://www.chalk.com/resources/most-least-paid-teachers-in-...

obscurette 4y ago

Nordic countries do all much better than others in my experience. I'm sure that they have their own problems, but such level of bullshit and disrespect is not one of them indeed.

300bps 4y ago

I think we can all agree this is not a problem in Finland The county I live in has similar demographics to Finland. We get 350 applications for every open teacher position. Not very accurate to compare Finland’s homogenous population of 5 million to the United State’s incredibly diverse population of 330 million.

havblue 4y ago
This isn't entirely a criticism of the parent post, but praise of entirely different education systems comes across as Finland ex machina: just do what they do and our problems are solved. Aside from the parenting component which is a huge part of student success, there's also the question of replacing school boards, administration staff, hiring better teachers of course and reforming local laws. And of course the teachers unions and the financial issues with pensions. There's no easy way to transition out of our existing problems and parents with the means just hit the eject button, sending their kids to private schools.
- iratewizard 4y ago
  Do what they do as in have a high-trust, heterogeneous society?
pnutjam 4y ago
Finland has a lot of immigrants and refugees. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-education-immigrant-children https://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-ed...
- 300bps 4y ago
  I wouldn't consider 7.9% of the population as "a lot" of immigrants when compared to the United States being 26%. And immigrants aren't the only issue. There's a lot of racial diversity in the US that just doesn't exist in Finland. And the educational record for immigrants in Finland is not great: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1467598022000008350?journalCode=ceji20 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1467598022000008... And again, Finland's entire population is substantially less than half the population of the US state of Pennsylvania.
- rr808 4y ago
  It still is small. Also Finland's education results have been slipping, likely because of said immigration: "Finland has been displaced from the very top. In the 2012 study, Finland ranked sixth in reading, twelfth in mathematics and fifth in science, while back in the 2003 study Finland was first in both science and reading and second in mathematics." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland

aqsalose 4y ago

Coincidentally just yesterday there was a big news article in the largest daily newspaper about the problems teachers have with uncooperative parents. One memorable case was of the parents calling the teacher and informing them that the parents have agreed with their kid is exempt from reading books. In another, during a disagreement with a teacher, kid called their parent, put the parent on speaker, who then proceeded disparage the teacher in very low language in front of the rest of class. The article is here https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000009001096.html https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000009001096.html : it is in Finnish, but Google Translate manages to make sense of it in English. The social standing and respect teachers have varies a lot in different social spheres, but it is certainly not as high and universal as doctors.

sampo 4y ago

> I think we can all agree this is not a problem in Finland. Schools in Finland are starting to have problems trying to recruit enough teachers: https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12555574 https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-12555574 https://www.aamulehti.fi/pirkanmaa/art-2000009014541.html https://www.aamulehti.fi/pirkanmaa/art-2000009014541.html

rr808 4y ago

> Teachers there are paid in accordance with the high respect they're given in society. You sure? on the list they get paid near the worst in the OECD. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/heres-how-much-teachers-around-the-world-are-paid.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/05/heres-how-much-teachers-arou...

SamBam 4y ago
Different data showing the same thing, Finish teachers are not paid well: https://www.chalk.com/resources/most-least-paid-teachers-in-world/ https://www.chalk.com/resources/most-least-paid-teachers-in-...