5 ms·

In alphabetical order, Ayn Rand Elon Musk Eric Weinstein Jordan Peterson Joscha Bach Noam Chomsky Paul Graham Yeah that's cheesy, but his essays had a

by jfabre 4y ago

In alphabetical order, Ayn Rand Elon Musk Eric Weinstein Jordan Peterson Joscha Bach Noam Chomsky Paul Graham Yeah that's cheesy, but his essays had a big influence on me and is the reason I'm on this forum. Peter Thiel Thomas Sowell

leto_ii 4y ago
I'm really really curious how Ayn Rand and Noam Chomsky made it on the same list. Actually Chomsky is the only odd one out, come to think of it...
- jfabre 4y ago
  Yup, I think that his views on how governments and bigco operate are spot-on. Manufacture of Consent was eye opening for me. I disagree with him politically. Also, anarchy is not so far away from libertarianism.
  - leto_ii 4y ago
    > I disagree with him politically. I think if you agree with him on government, big corporations and manufacturing consent you pretty much just agree with him :D What do you disagree with? > Also, anarchy is not so far away from libertarianism. At some point I thought the same, but I think there are some core differences that would eventually lead to vastly different real world results. Mostly I think they stem from two ways of looking at people: either as primarily individuals who voluntarily form (contractual) bonds with others (this would be the libertarian take), or primarily as social creatures who try to carve out some room for their individual freedoms but always remain part of an organic whole (think of Kropotkin, mutual aid etc.).
    - jfabre 4y ago
      If I remember correctly he's been advocating for socialism a lot in his late years, which I think would be even worse than what we have today and would naturally descend into totalitarianism like it happened so many times in the past.
      - leto_ii 4y ago
        I think he's been advocating for libertarian socialism consistently for his entire life. He's always careful to distinguish it from state socialism, as in, for example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr_Qp5k5zDY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr_Qp5k5zDY
        jfabre 4y ago
        I listened to 2 minutes and it seems promising, thank you.
- civilized 4y ago
  Montaigne once said that he often found himself listening to multiple perspectives and being convinced by all of them, even when they contradicted one another.
uxcolumbo 4y ago
Any specifics? What ideas from Rand, Musk and Thiel in particular? Bach has interesting ideas - I enjoy listening to him.
- jfabre 4y ago
  Well, I suggest you search them on youtube to have an accurate representation. They all have multiple interviews available. I will probably butcher them and it's not going to be exhaustive, but from the top of my head: Peter Thiel: His contrarian views enlightened me many many times, for example his views that higher education is not a temple of knowledge anymore, but a big elitist economic bubble. I also suggest you read his book Zero to One, I liked it a lot. Elon Musk: One could argue he's not really a thinker, since he's working so much on his businesses. Even so, it's evident that he thinks a lot and very deeply. He's willing to figure out the big picture of what's good for humanity and go all-in on it. Rand: Her philosophy and her system of values which is in a deep contrast with what is preached everywhere else. This would be a start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQVrMzWtqgU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQVrMzWtqgU
  - uxcolumbo 4y ago
    Thanks for clarifying. What’s your view on Thiel supporting Trump? Why would a deep thinker support a charlatan, destructive and narcissistic person like Trump? Zero to one had some good ideas. And Elon apparently isn’t really a deep thinker. A good hype person… yes. Most of his projects are vanity projects, e.g hyperloop, neurolink, self driving cars etc. He badly wants to be seen as a real life Tony Stark. He’s also a narcissist and a terrible leader… e.g. the hyperloop project was to derail a public transport project.[01] There is also a good video series outlining Musk’s false claims [02] And Rand’s ideas are toxic [03]… just look at the state of America… huge inequalities in the richest country of the world. Or UK also getting worse… thanks to a similar mindset. Dog eat dog world… self interest trumps helping others to maintain a stable society. [01] https://sfist.com/2022/08/11/musk-backlash-continues-with-time-magazine-calling-out-hyperloop-idea-as-spoiler-for-high-speed-rail/ https://sfist.com/2022/08/11/musk-backlash-continues-with-ti... [02] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeUvcJUdRK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeUvcJUdRK0 [03] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-this-is-what-happens-when-you-take-ayn-rand-seriously https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-this-is-what-hap...

by jfabre 4y ago

leto_ii 4y ago

I'm really really curious how Ayn Rand and Noam Chomsky made it on the same list. Actually Chomsky is the only odd one out, come to think of it...

jfabre 4y ago
Yup, I think that his views on how governments and bigco operate are spot-on. Manufacture of Consent was eye opening for me. I disagree with him politically. Also, anarchy is not so far away from libertarianism.
- leto_ii 4y ago
  > I disagree with him politically. I think if you agree with him on government, big corporations and manufacturing consent you pretty much just agree with him :D What do you disagree with? > Also, anarchy is not so far away from libertarianism. At some point I thought the same, but I think there are some core differences that would eventually lead to vastly different real world results. Mostly I think they stem from two ways of looking at people: either as primarily individuals who voluntarily form (contractual) bonds with others (this would be the libertarian take), or primarily as social creatures who try to carve out some room for their individual freedoms but always remain part of an organic whole (think of Kropotkin, mutual aid etc.).
  - jfabre 4y ago
    If I remember correctly he's been advocating for socialism a lot in his late years, which I think would be even worse than what we have today and would naturally descend into totalitarianism like it happened so many times in the past.
    - leto_ii 4y ago
      I think he's been advocating for libertarian socialism consistently for his entire life. He's always careful to distinguish it from state socialism, as in, for example: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr_Qp5k5zDY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr_Qp5k5zDY
      - jfabre 4y ago
        I listened to 2 minutes and it seems promising, thank you.
civilized 4y ago
Montaigne once said that he often found himself listening to multiple perspectives and being convinced by all of them, even when they contradicted one another.

uxcolumbo 4y ago

Any specifics? What ideas from Rand, Musk and Thiel in particular? Bach has interesting ideas - I enjoy listening to him.

jfabre 4y ago
Well, I suggest you search them on youtube to have an accurate representation. They all have multiple interviews available. I will probably butcher them and it's not going to be exhaustive, but from the top of my head: Peter Thiel: His contrarian views enlightened me many many times, for example his views that higher education is not a temple of knowledge anymore, but a big elitist economic bubble. I also suggest you read his book Zero to One, I liked it a lot. Elon Musk: One could argue he's not really a thinker, since he's working so much on his businesses. Even so, it's evident that he thinks a lot and very deeply. He's willing to figure out the big picture of what's good for humanity and go all-in on it. Rand: Her philosophy and her system of values which is in a deep contrast with what is preached everywhere else. This would be a start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQVrMzWtqgU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQVrMzWtqgU
- uxcolumbo 4y ago
  Thanks for clarifying. What’s your view on Thiel supporting Trump? Why would a deep thinker support a charlatan, destructive and narcissistic person like Trump? Zero to one had some good ideas. And Elon apparently isn’t really a deep thinker. A good hype person… yes. Most of his projects are vanity projects, e.g hyperloop, neurolink, self driving cars etc. He badly wants to be seen as a real life Tony Stark. He’s also a narcissist and a terrible leader… e.g. the hyperloop project was to derail a public transport project.[01] There is also a good video series outlining Musk’s false claims [02] And Rand’s ideas are toxic [03]… just look at the state of America… huge inequalities in the richest country of the world. Or UK also getting worse… thanks to a similar mindset. Dog eat dog world… self interest trumps helping others to maintain a stable society. [01] https://sfist.com/2022/08/11/musk-backlash-continues-with-time-magazine-calling-out-hyperloop-idea-as-spoiler-for-high-speed-rail/ https://sfist.com/2022/08/11/musk-backlash-continues-with-ti... [02] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeUvcJUdRK0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeUvcJUdRK0 [03] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-this-is-what-happens-when-you-take-ayn-rand-seriously https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-this-is-what-hap...