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1. This is not about America. I'm from Eastern Europe and we have the very same problems. 2. This is not about money. Yes, being underpaid is part of a problem

1. This is not about America. I'm from Eastern Europe and we have the very same problems. 2. This is not about money. Yes, being underpaid is part of a problem how teachers feel, but no money compensates humiliation and bullying teachers are experiencing. 3. It's not a rant. This EXACTLY how I feel after spending three years at school. I was a math teacher in classes of my kids because a school couldn't find any. Yes, nobody wants to teach any more.

santoshalper 4y ago
It's not just about the money, but I think the mediocre pay combined with all the bullshit is just too much.
- obscurette 4y ago
  In most of Eastern Europe countries teachers had lower salaries than average as far as we remember - ie at least since WWII. It's expected for most of us here. But that wasn't my point. The point was that you can't compensate all this bullshit with money. OK, you might find some people who can do anything for money, but not so many you can fill all positions in public education system.
  - pojzon 4y ago
    30 years ago teachers were respected and parents trusted teachers with their kids. If the kid was misbehaving in class or getting bad grades -> was properly managed by parents. Right now parents are delusional about their kids. Blame teachers if something is wrong with the kid. Cant understand that most likely they are the issue why the kid is behaving this way. Dont want to take the blame. At least those are my obesrvations - my mom was a teacher with 40 years of experience and national wide fame.
    - vehementi 4y ago
      Like other people in this thread I've had the idea of retiring early and having a second career as a teacher. What if I did that, and then just refused to take any of that shit? Are teachers rare enough that I wouldn't get fired?
      - pojzon 4y ago
        You could lose your rights to teach for many years as teachers are supervised by independent curatory system. If you get blamed a lot you can also get a court case. You are on a lose-lose position as a teacher.
8note 4y ago
I think if teaching was a $2M/year job, plenty of people would want to teach. They might not be good at it, but actually good money will draw many candidates
- epgui 4y ago
  And, sadly, good pay would probably be the thing that would most boost the social respect we show teachers.
- caoilte 4y ago
  This is a better argument to cut CEO pay by 90% than anything else. The problem for teachers (and lots of other people in the care sector who struggle to take effective industrial action) isn't that the pay doesn't attract good people. The problem is it isn't enough to live on, especially given all the training they have to do (plus associated loans) and unpaid work.
- Meekro 4y ago
  The property tax on your average home would be so high, only a teacher could afford it.
TimTheTinker 4y ago
I think we can all agree this is not a problem in Finland. Teachers there are paid in accordance with the high respect they're given in society.
- obscurette 4y ago
  Nordic countries do all much better than others in my experience. I'm sure that they have their own problems, but such level of bullshit and disrespect is not one of them indeed.
- 300bps 4y ago
  I think we can all agree this is not a problem in Finland The county I live in has similar demographics to Finland. We get 350 applications for every open teacher position. Not very accurate to compare Finland’s homogenous population of 5 million to the United State’s incredibly diverse population of 330 million.
  - havblue 4y ago
    This isn't entirely a criticism of the parent post, but praise of entirely different education systems comes across as Finland ex machina: just do what they do and our problems are solved. Aside from the parenting component which is a huge part of student success, there's also the question of replacing school boards, administration staff, hiring better teachers of course and reforming local laws. And of course the teachers unions and the financial issues with pensions. There's no easy way to transition out of our existing problems and parents with the means just hit the eject button, sending their kids to private schools.
    - iratewizard 4y ago
      Do what they do as in have a high-trust, heterogeneous society?
  - pnutjam 4y ago
    Finland has a lot of immigrants and refugees. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-education-immigrant-children https://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-ed...
indymike 4y ago
> no money compensates humiliation and bullying teachers are experiencing. I wish I could upvote this x10000. This is the exact problem.

santoshalper 4y ago

It's not just about the money, but I think the mediocre pay combined with all the bullshit is just too much.

obscurette 4y ago
In most of Eastern Europe countries teachers had lower salaries than average as far as we remember - ie at least since WWII. It's expected for most of us here. But that wasn't my point. The point was that you can't compensate all this bullshit with money. OK, you might find some people who can do anything for money, but not so many you can fill all positions in public education system.
- pojzon 4y ago
  30 years ago teachers were respected and parents trusted teachers with their kids. If the kid was misbehaving in class or getting bad grades -> was properly managed by parents. Right now parents are delusional about their kids. Blame teachers if something is wrong with the kid. Cant understand that most likely they are the issue why the kid is behaving this way. Dont want to take the blame. At least those are my obesrvations - my mom was a teacher with 40 years of experience and national wide fame.
  - vehementi 4y ago
    Like other people in this thread I've had the idea of retiring early and having a second career as a teacher. What if I did that, and then just refused to take any of that shit? Are teachers rare enough that I wouldn't get fired?
    - pojzon 4y ago
      You could lose your rights to teach for many years as teachers are supervised by independent curatory system. If you get blamed a lot you can also get a court case. You are on a lose-lose position as a teacher.

8note 4y ago

I think if teaching was a $2M/year job, plenty of people would want to teach. They might not be good at it, but actually good money will draw many candidates

epgui 4y ago
And, sadly, good pay would probably be the thing that would most boost the social respect we show teachers.
caoilte 4y ago
This is a better argument to cut CEO pay by 90% than anything else. The problem for teachers (and lots of other people in the care sector who struggle to take effective industrial action) isn't that the pay doesn't attract good people. The problem is it isn't enough to live on, especially given all the training they have to do (plus associated loans) and unpaid work.
Meekro 4y ago
The property tax on your average home would be so high, only a teacher could afford it.

TimTheTinker 4y ago

I think we can all agree this is not a problem in Finland. Teachers there are paid in accordance with the high respect they're given in society.

obscurette 4y ago
Nordic countries do all much better than others in my experience. I'm sure that they have their own problems, but such level of bullshit and disrespect is not one of them indeed.
300bps 4y ago
I think we can all agree this is not a problem in Finland The county I live in has similar demographics to Finland. We get 350 applications for every open teacher position. Not very accurate to compare Finland’s homogenous population of 5 million to the United State’s incredibly diverse population of 330 million.
- havblue 4y ago
  This isn't entirely a criticism of the parent post, but praise of entirely different education systems comes across as Finland ex machina: just do what they do and our problems are solved. Aside from the parenting component which is a huge part of student success, there's also the question of replacing school boards, administration staff, hiring better teachers of course and reforming local laws. And of course the teachers unions and the financial issues with pensions. There's no easy way to transition out of our existing problems and parents with the means just hit the eject button, sending their kids to private schools.
  - iratewizard 4y ago
    Do what they do as in have a high-trust, heterogeneous society?
- pnutjam 4y ago
  Finland has a lot of immigrants and refugees. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-education-immigrant-children https://www.theguardian.com/education/2011/nov/21/finland-ed...

indymike 4y ago

> no money compensates humiliation and bullying teachers are experiencing. I wish I could upvote this x10000. This is the exact problem.