4 ms·

Similar historic outcome. I was in the room for Howard‘s Dean “scream“. which basically ended his campaign. As far as I can tell the cause was not enough attent

Similar historic outcome. I was in the room for Howard‘s Dean “scream“. which basically ended his campaign. As far as I can tell the cause was not enough attention paid to the microphone sound reinforcement. He had to push too hard to be heard in the raucous room.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
chrisseaton 4y ago
Did it sound weird in the room, or was it only on the recording?
arminiusreturns 4y ago
I'd like to find the history of declaring that scream ended his campaign. Since you were there, did anyone in the crowd react in that manner afterwards, or was it really just an excuse the media used to lambast him artificially (which is what it felt like to me)?
- nl 4y ago
  I followed the campaign through the media at the time. His campaign had already started going downhill at the time. The context of the rally where that occurred was that he'd finished 3rd in the Iowa Caucus, which was a bad result. The scream was something that went viral and made him appear pretty odd which didn't help. https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a41615/the-dean-scream-oral-history/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a41615/the-dean-scream... is pretty good.
- leviathant 4y ago
  When it happened, by the media coverage, you would have thought he dropped his pants in the middle of a preschool or something. There was this almost uniform narrative that this 'scream' was crazy and it baffled me. These people all know how microphones and live events work, and it really felt like a concerted effort to drag the guy down - particularly given how gaffe-prone Bush was (putting it lightly), and especially given the whole Trump thing. 24-year-old me felt like it was a media drive-by, and I don't subscribe to the "big bad media" narrative that a lot of folks do. (I worked for a newspaper for a while, local journalism is especially important, which is why it's been targeted and gutted, but I digress) Later - I can't remember where - I saw a series of shorts that broke down these pivotal moments. Dukakis in the tank, Dan Quayle and potato, the Dean Scream, and others. It painted a much more nuanced picture around complications within the organization of the campaign that were playing behind the scenes, and with or without the scream, Kerry was playing a much stronger game, apparently. I feel like Howard Dean might have even contributed to the documentary. It was really interesting, I wish I could remember the context of these shorts. "Did anyone in the crowd react in that manner" - I remember accounts from the time saying that in the room, it wasn't weird at all. Everyone was pumped. None of that changes my mind that media supersaturated the scream. Late night shows, NPR, cable news, and I'm sure conservative media in particular were going to town.
  - jchanimal 4y ago
    I am a music recording engineer by hobby, and for me it was obvious that some threshold had broken. I was embarrassed for the sound team. (They had flubbed a Joan Jett appearance the day before.) I did not expect it to play so bad nationally. A big piece of context missing from the media is that before Dean came on stage, the room was full of the loudest hooting and hollering group of Texans I’ve ever been with. We had all bussed up from Austin to volunteer. So he probably made a tactical error to try to go over the top of the crowd’s energy instead of coming in calming.
donavanm 4y ago
It was the broadcast mixing. IIRC his mic was played over the house sound as expected and it sounded fine for the audience. For the broadcast the engineer only used his mic and didnt mix in any of the audience background noise. Thats why it was a normal event for people in the room, but sounded like a lunatic turned up to 11 with no audience to briadcast viewers. A while back I actually heard the different inputs, and the mix between what was broadcast and what normally would be.
- awb 4y ago
  Here’s the broadcast: https://youtu.be/RwkNnMrsx7Q https://youtu.be/RwkNnMrsx7Q You can hear the crowd as well (maybe through his mic?). The thing watching this live on TV wasn’t the scream, but the gyrating hand movements and the gradual decent from a politician into a WWE wrestler voice as he’s naming a long list of states. The scream was actually more of a yippee kinda sound. But the disassociating thing for me was seeing him land a disappointing finish (3rd in Iowa) and then act like he’s a rock star about to headline a huge nationwide tour. Sitting at home, it’s like yeah, why don’t you try to win one first before you go bragging about how you’re going to win the next 10. So, for me it was the content + tone, not just the tone.
InCityDreams 4y ago
For any Brits that want to research...I'm pretty sure the same happened to that Kinnock chap.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

chrisseaton 4y ago

Did it sound weird in the room, or was it only on the recording?

arminiusreturns 4y ago

I'd like to find the history of declaring that scream ended his campaign. Since you were there, did anyone in the crowd react in that manner afterwards, or was it really just an excuse the media used to lambast him artificially (which is what it felt like to me)?

nl 4y ago
I followed the campaign through the media at the time. His campaign had already started going downhill at the time. The context of the rally where that occurred was that he'd finished 3rd in the Iowa Caucus, which was a bad result. The scream was something that went viral and made him appear pretty odd which didn't help. https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a41615/the-dean-scream-oral-history/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a41615/the-dean-scream... is pretty good.
leviathant 4y ago
When it happened, by the media coverage, you would have thought he dropped his pants in the middle of a preschool or something. There was this almost uniform narrative that this 'scream' was crazy and it baffled me. These people all know how microphones and live events work, and it really felt like a concerted effort to drag the guy down - particularly given how gaffe-prone Bush was (putting it lightly), and especially given the whole Trump thing. 24-year-old me felt like it was a media drive-by, and I don't subscribe to the "big bad media" narrative that a lot of folks do. (I worked for a newspaper for a while, local journalism is especially important, which is why it's been targeted and gutted, but I digress) Later - I can't remember where - I saw a series of shorts that broke down these pivotal moments. Dukakis in the tank, Dan Quayle and potato, the Dean Scream, and others. It painted a much more nuanced picture around complications within the organization of the campaign that were playing behind the scenes, and with or without the scream, Kerry was playing a much stronger game, apparently. I feel like Howard Dean might have even contributed to the documentary. It was really interesting, I wish I could remember the context of these shorts. "Did anyone in the crowd react in that manner" - I remember accounts from the time saying that in the room, it wasn't weird at all. Everyone was pumped. None of that changes my mind that media supersaturated the scream. Late night shows, NPR, cable news, and I'm sure conservative media in particular were going to town.
- jchanimal 4y ago
  I am a music recording engineer by hobby, and for me it was obvious that some threshold had broken. I was embarrassed for the sound team. (They had flubbed a Joan Jett appearance the day before.) I did not expect it to play so bad nationally. A big piece of context missing from the media is that before Dean came on stage, the room was full of the loudest hooting and hollering group of Texans I’ve ever been with. We had all bussed up from Austin to volunteer. So he probably made a tactical error to try to go over the top of the crowd’s energy instead of coming in calming.

donavanm 4y ago

It was the broadcast mixing. IIRC his mic was played over the house sound as expected and it sounded fine for the audience. For the broadcast the engineer only used his mic and didnt mix in any of the audience background noise. Thats why it was a normal event for people in the room, but sounded like a lunatic turned up to 11 with no audience to briadcast viewers. A while back I actually heard the different inputs, and the mix between what was broadcast and what normally would be.

awb 4y ago
Here’s the broadcast: https://youtu.be/RwkNnMrsx7Q https://youtu.be/RwkNnMrsx7Q You can hear the crowd as well (maybe through his mic?). The thing watching this live on TV wasn’t the scream, but the gyrating hand movements and the gradual decent from a politician into a WWE wrestler voice as he’s naming a long list of states. The scream was actually more of a yippee kinda sound. But the disassociating thing for me was seeing him land a disappointing finish (3rd in Iowa) and then act like he’s a rock star about to headline a huge nationwide tour. Sitting at home, it’s like yeah, why don’t you try to win one first before you go bragging about how you’re going to win the next 10. So, for me it was the content + tone, not just the tone.

InCityDreams 4y ago

For any Brits that want to research...I'm pretty sure the same happened to that Kinnock chap.