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Meanwhile, Apple collects the same types of user data as Google [1], and wants to grow its advertising business [2]. [1] https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/app

Meanwhile, Apple collects the same types of user data as Google [1], and wants to grow its advertising business [2]. [1] https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf [2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-aapl-set-to-expand-advertising-bringing-ads-to-maps-tv-and-books-apps-l6tdqqmg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-...

dwaite 4y ago
First party data collection and use is not the same as third-party tracking. I have relationships with Apple and Google. The line around what data usage is appropriate with those companies somewhat nebulous, and also somewhat a personal decision. For instance - the paper you site shows that Apple and Google send location data from devices to the server. Those devices also both ship with functionality for things like mapping and local weather. So for iOS, you have to approve sharing location data (even for the built-in weather app and maps app) on an app-by-app basis. Android has gotten better about this over the years, but I don't know current state. Facebook is (was) correlating detailed profiles of users who had no relationship with Facebook, through interactions with third parties that were not part of Facebook, and without disclosure. That is a much simpler line to draw. Even then, Apple gave the user choice - and the users almost universally chose not to give that capability.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  > Even then, Apple gave the user choice Interestingly, Apple puts tracking for its own apps behind another setting that ignores the global setting. Unlike its competitors, Apple does not give users a choice about whether to send location data to Apple (if you want to see your location at all) or about whether to send app install and search information to Apple. Apple's devices are worse on privacy on every axis when you consider whether they give users a choice.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    a) Apple does give a choice about whether to send location data. It's in System Services within the Privacy section and consists of 18 checkboxes. Do you have evidence that with all of these disabled they are still capturing location data ? b) How would the App Store even work at all if they didn't store your purchases.
    - lern_too_spel 4y ago
      a) Apple does not give you a choice about whether to send your location data to Apple. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24585353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24585353 b) Most of the apps I use aren't purchased. Why should Apple know which apps they are? Apple's privacy-respecting (in actuality instead of in marketing) competitors don't require this.
      - threeseed 4y ago
        a) We are in 2022. A lot can and has changed in the last 2 years especially with regards to privacy. Again do you have evidence that location data is being sent to Apple when all the options have been disabled. b) I’m not sure if developer installs are being tracked by Apple. Are they ?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        lern_too_spel 4y ago
        a) The apple.com webpage linked in that HN comment moved to https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/location-services/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/location-service..., which contains every quoted section essentially verbatim. b) Developer installs on iOS are even worse for privacy than App Store installs, requiring an up-to-date payment method to associate with your device instead of just an email address or phone number.
- mtgx 4y ago
- ProAm 4y ago
  > First party data collection and use is not the same as third-party tracking. I can't disagree with this more. User privacy is user privacy.

dwaite 4y ago

First party data collection and use is not the same as third-party tracking. I have relationships with Apple and Google. The line around what data usage is appropriate with those companies somewhat nebulous, and also somewhat a personal decision. For instance - the paper you site shows that Apple and Google send location data from devices to the server. Those devices also both ship with functionality for things like mapping and local weather. So for iOS, you have to approve sharing location data (even for the built-in weather app and maps app) on an app-by-app basis. Android has gotten better about this over the years, but I don't know current state. Facebook is (was) correlating detailed profiles of users who had no relationship with Facebook, through interactions with third parties that were not part of Facebook, and without disclosure. That is a much simpler line to draw. Even then, Apple gave the user choice - and the users almost universally chose not to give that capability.

lern_too_spel 4y ago
> Even then, Apple gave the user choice Interestingly, Apple puts tracking for its own apps behind another setting that ignores the global setting. Unlike its competitors, Apple does not give users a choice about whether to send location data to Apple (if you want to see your location at all) or about whether to send app install and search information to Apple. Apple's devices are worse on privacy on every axis when you consider whether they give users a choice.
- threeseed 4y ago
  a) Apple does give a choice about whether to send location data. It's in System Services within the Privacy section and consists of 18 checkboxes. Do you have evidence that with all of these disabled they are still capturing location data ? b) How would the App Store even work at all if they didn't store your purchases.
  - lern_too_spel 4y ago
    a) Apple does not give you a choice about whether to send your location data to Apple. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24585353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24585353 b) Most of the apps I use aren't purchased. Why should Apple know which apps they are? Apple's privacy-respecting (in actuality instead of in marketing) competitors don't require this.
    - threeseed 4y ago
      a) We are in 2022. A lot can and has changed in the last 2 years especially with regards to privacy. Again do you have evidence that location data is being sent to Apple when all the options have been disabled. b) I’m not sure if developer installs are being tracked by Apple. Are they ?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - lern_too_spel 4y ago
        a) The apple.com webpage linked in that HN comment moved to https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/location-services/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/location-service..., which contains every quoted section essentially verbatim. b) Developer installs on iOS are even worse for privacy than App Store installs, requiring an up-to-date payment method to associate with your device instead of just an email address or phone number.
mtgx 4y ago
ProAm 4y ago
> First party data collection and use is not the same as third-party tracking. I can't disagree with this more. User privacy is user privacy.